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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorNevesy
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2018
     
    Hi all,
    Currently in the process of purchasing a 500 year old property that doesn't have any water supply. We've had a quote for a borehole which is around £10k for the full installation, however the property sits directly next to a stream/creak. I haven't measured the yield yet but the flow is consistent.

    Has anyone had any experience with harvesting the stream water? I've done some costings for a gravity fed system as we have 50m of head to play with and it's nearly half the price of the borehole setup. This includes a filtration system inclusive of UV as the tests have shown some coliform and enough water to last us a month should the stream dry up. Very unlikely in the Welsh mountains...

    The property also has a sizeable pond (25m x 18m) that the stream feeds into and then back out of. It's also next to the property. Is Pumping and filtering this water a step to far, the wife seems to think so...

    Cheers in advance and hello from Wales!
  1.  
    Go for the borehole. The UV and filteration might cope with a bit of coilform but it won't cope with a dead sheep upstream (or some other wild life drowning in the stream) which you won't know about until you are quite ill !!

    Apart from that for resale value a borehole is acceptable whereas a filtered stream would be a hard sell. (Even if this is the for ever home, you never know what happens)
  2.  
    An after thought - if you have the UV system then any power cut contaminates the whole system
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2018
     
    Lots of stream fed supplies around Dartmoor and not heard of any illness due to contaminated water. Many a time I have drunk straight from the streams on the welsh hills with no ill affects so with UV I cant see many problems. Whens it's your stream not difficult to keep and eye on whats going on upstream. 10k sounds steep for a borehole. Neighbour had one recently and sure he paid less than that but can find out. There does seem to be some profiteering around private water supplies. I fitted ours (spring) for around £500. Storage tank, presure set, lime cylinder for PH, filters etc. Easy DIY job.
  3.  
    Posted By: Beau10k sounds steep for a borehole. Neighbour had one recently and sure he paid less than that but can find out.

    Borehole prices will depend on the depth (and the soil conditions). The drilling firm should know the area and from knowledge give an estimate. I have 2 boreholes within 500m of each other, one at 120m the other at 25m. My neighbour (70m away) next to the 25m has one at 16m. Water levels can vary quite quickly
  4.  
    Posted By: BeauLots of stream fed supplies around Dartmoor and not heard of any illness due to contaminated water.

    On the other hand
    https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2015/aug/12/animal-faeces-carcass-likely-cause-water-contamination-scare

    The water contamination incident affecting more than 300,000 households in Lancashire could lead to criminal prosecutions according to a government watchdog, as experts said animal faeces or a dead carcass was most likely to blame.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJun 9th 2018
     
    The conventional advice is to investigate any stream or other water source for a mile upstream before drinking from it.
    • CommentAuthorNevesy
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018 edited
     
    Thanks for the advice guys.

    The borehole will be roughly 60m deep based on others in the area. I know for resale this makes more sense as banks are happy with them but all being well we don't plan to move again.

    Posted By: Beau I fitted ours (spring) for around £500. Storage tank, presure set, lime cylinder for PH, filters etc. Easy DIY job.

    I'd be interested to know your setup, any chance you child share where you purchased your items?
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018 edited
     
    Got my equipment from Stenlakes in Cornwall but I see prices have gone up a massive amount since I bought it all! Think the presure set was £150 but looking on ebay they are £300 now so maybe my £500 was overly optimistic in the current market. Still big variations and so savings to be made.

    Our system comprises of a lime cylinder filled with lime granules (like this http://www.pumpmasters.co.uk/products/filters/ph.html) which then feeds to a 300 litre plastic holding tank. The idea to have the PH adjustment first is that any variation should even out in the storage tank. I think our cylinder was around a £100 but I see many are looking for £400 for this. Might be worth seeing what can be got from France as I think I have seen some posts elsewhere saying how much cheaper this sort of equipment is over there even getting presure sets in the supermarket!

    So the tank feeds to a presure set like this https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Automatic-Pressurisation-Group-Electro-Water-Pump-AQUA-JETINOX-82-M-G-0-6KW-DAB/261646127929?epid=2120215248&hash=item3ceb531339

    Which then goes through a filter similar to this but we only bother with a single filter. https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/AQUAFILTER-10-In-Line-2-Stage-Whole-House-Water-Filter-System-1-2-NPT-Fittings/232578626337?hash=item3626c43321:g:or4AAOSwUchaHdxs

    A few taps to adjust how much water gets put through the PH correction cylinder.
    And thats basically it.

    No UV as our spring supply was pretty good when tested.

    I think Grundfos used to make an all in one system which was very neat but think it was 1k when we were building so out of our league. Had a look on their site but cant see it but they may still make it
    • CommentAuthorNevesy
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018
     
    Thanks for that, that's perfect. Do you find your 300 litre tank to be big enough?
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018 edited
     
    Posted By: NevesyThanks for that, that's perfect. Do you find your 300 litre tank to be big enough?


    I am guessing at the tank size as its covered in insulation but it's around that size. Yes more than big enough for te 2 of us. We went for what I would consider a large tank as once or twice over the years our spring has almost dried up. The idea with a larger tank was if we had a severe drought get a bowser to bring water here and fill the tank from it. Not had a drought since the 80s haha. For day to day running 100 litres would probably do as the spring has a fairly good flow rate just not much head to give presure. I can measure the tanks size if it would help.
  5.  
    Posted By: NevesyI know for resale this makes more sense as banks are happy with them but all being well we don't plan to move again.

    If you are sure of your crystal ball! Is SWMBO happy with using the stream?

    Posted By: BeauSo the tank feeds to a presure set like thishttps://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Automatic-Pressurisation-Group-Electro-Water-Pump-AQUA-JETINOX-82-M-G-0-6KW-DAB/261646127929?epid=2120215248&hash=item3ceb531339" rel="nofollow" >https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Automatic-Pressurisation-Group-Electro-Water-Pump-AQUA-JETINOX-82-M-G-0-6KW-DAB/261646127929?epid=2120215248&hash=item3ceb531339

    Seems expensive against the components brought seperatly. (pressure vessel (aka ch expansion tank) pressure switch and a pump), all of which would be seperatly changeable for servicing.

    My deep borehole had an iron filter on it which automatically backflushed after a set number of m3. a good fit and forget. (Not needed now as the water has a lower iron content after 20 odd years of use.
    • CommentAuthorNevesy
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018
     
    We always have that doubt but that's life I think, we'll have a few other big expenses coming up at the same time. Whilst I hate redoing work I'd rather go for a cheaper system that will give us a little more breathing room financially for those things my crystal ball can't see.

    SWMBO will be happy providing we have a viable contingency and the fences around the stream are maintained, aswell as filters... The brother in law is a microbiologist and can do adhoc testing of the water at his lab. I think the pond may have been step to far for her though!

    Maybe in a few years a borehole will be in once everything has settled down. Thanks for both sides of the coin everyone!
  6.  
    Have been on flowing stream water for 20 years no problems.

    Reason for flowing is to stop freezing up in winter.

    We have an iron trace in the water supply but not enough to be worried about.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2018
     
    Posted By: renewablejohnReason for flowing is to stop freezing up in winter.

    boreholes don't freeze?
  7.  
    Posted By: djh
    Posted By: renewablejohnReason for flowing is to stop freezing up in winter.

    boreholes don't freeze?


    neither does running water
  8.  
    It is much easier to frost proof a borehole as the whole lot can easily be under ground, whereas it is difficult to have the take-off pipe from the stream underground.

    Running water will freeze, it just depends on the flow rate and the temperature.
  9.  
    If you have a stream with enough flow you could use it with a GSHP. Just a thought.

    Paul in Montreal.
    • CommentAuthorNevesy
    • CommentTimeJun 28th 2018
     
    We are just about ready to install the water system now. We haven't had much rain for about a month and the stream is flowing just as strong. Water tests have come back good but I've gone for a commercial grade filtration system just to be on the safe side.

    Thanks for your help!
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeJun 28th 2018
     
    Takes me back to when we (me and the wife) went for our walk to find the source of our little stream that runs at the end of the garden. I extolled the virtues of the "untouched by human hand" purity of this ancient watercourse.

    Noticed two ravens in the distance, found one stinking and maggot riddled dead pony right at the the top.

    'nough said.
  10.  
    Well, you was right, quite untouched by human hand it was!
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2018
     
    a genuine case of horses for (water) courses...

    gg
    • CommentAuthordereke
    • CommentTimeJun 29th 2018
     
    When I was a kid and we went on holiday to countries with dodgy water supplies we never got sick. We just assumed we had a good constitution.

    At home we had tank water collected from the roof (this is in New Zealand). One day someone suggested to dad that he get the water tested. It came back as well below national standards. So we figure we should have a look in the tank and open it up to find a dead possum and a bird floating around.

    We'd been drinking the water completely unfiltered so in a way it had built us up with a good resistance. Needless to say we had some good filtration on after that!
  11.  
    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryGo for the borehole. The UV and filteration might cope with a bit of coilform but it won't cope with a dead sheep upstream (or some other wild life drowning in the stream) which you won't know about until you are quite ill !!

    Which I said on the 9th June and I maintain my position that a borehole would be better. As with lots of things it is the elderly and the young that suffer when facilities are/get marginal, but I also understand the financial implications that pressure decisions.
    • CommentAuthorNevesy
    • CommentTimeJun 30th 2018
     
    Thanks for the feedback everyone. We may very well go for the borehole in the not so distant future. The benefit now is that we have the infrastructure to store and filter that water regardless of where its coming from.

    If we ever have any doubts it'll be bottled water for drinking, although the majority of the water I drink comes boiled with a tea bag in and a splash of milk!
  12.  
    Posted By: NevesyIf we ever have any doubts it'll be bottled water for drinking,

    If you need to go down that route then you also need to use bottled water for washing up and cleaning teeth as well!!
  13.  
    ...or boiled. And add washing vegetables and other foods, making ice, arguably washing your hands....
  14.  
    Posted By: Nick ParsonsAnd add washing vegetables and other foods

    But only if they are not going to be cooked after preparation.
    Bottom line - not having potable water coming out of the kitchen tap is a real pain in the ar##
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