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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorDonkey
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2019
     
    Mike1

    Why do you say "leading with the the outer leaf first"? My builders are leading with the inner leaf and I see the Green Building Store did the same.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: DonkeyWhy do you say "leading with the the outer leaf first"? My builders are leading with the inner leaf and I see the Green Building Store did the same.

    He's simply citing the BBA:

    "The external leaf should be constructed ahead of the internal leaf so that any mortar protruding into the cavity space from the back of the external leaf can be cleaned off before installing the product. Batts must not be pushed into a completed cavity."
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJan 11th 2019
     
    Sounds like small print dreamed up to avoid any claims
    • CommentAuthorMike1
    • CommentTimeFeb 4th 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: tonySounds like small print dreamed up to avoid any claims

    There are reasons behind it:
    1) If mortar is projecting into the cavity, that will tend to compress the insulation, with a negative impact on U-value where it happens
    2) When there is wind-driven rain against a non-rendered wall, the wall can become saturated with to the extent that water can flow down the inner face of the brick or blockwork (I've seen it and the flow rate can be quite shocking). Projecting mortar, particularly at the joins between boards, can lead to some of that water soaking the insulation - not right through (provided the insulation is otherwise installed correctly) - but enough to further reduce the insulation value.
    The overall impact on U-value is probably only a few percentage points and will vary depending on the extent of the mortar projection, but if you're interested in minimizing heat loss then this kind of attention to detail will help.
  1.  
    Wondering if I can resurrect this thread. Single storey extension. Builder has generally been organised and precise. However, walls up, waiting for the long lintel for the glass on the rear elevation, and (after a lovely period of dry weather) it has been raining for 2-3 days. Cavity insulation batts in the walls must be completed wet now. I know the fibres don't aborb water but they feel sopping wet if you put your hand on them. Not obviously compacted, though.

    This must be normal practice for builders. If mine didn't cover it I can't believe it's a well-known requirement. But surely it will take months of warm, dry summer weather to get anywhere near drying these out. I'm hoping (a) the blockwork on the inner leaf will be waterproof enough to stop all that damp affecting the plasterboard and decor, (b) if the U-value of the wall is badly affected it will be okay again by next autumn.

    Can anyone reassure me that they've experienced walls like this and it didn't lead to damp on the inside?
    Can anyone give me U-values for wet cavity wall batts (compared to dry ones) so I know what my definitive level of unhappiness should be atm?
    Can anyone reassure me in the long run it makes little difference if new walls go up with wet or dry insulation because they all get wet/dry out with normal annual weather cycles?
    Thanks.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeNov 19th 2024
     
    You didn't say what type of insulation batts were used?
  2.  
    Oddly enough I was pondering the same on Sunday when passing a site (?hip-to-gable conversion?). It was lagging it down and the completely unprotected glass-fibre fill will have been soaked. This was full fill so no vents; no air-stream. Yes it *probably* will dry out in the end but it is not good practice!!
    • CommentAuthordo_discimus
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2024 edited
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: djh</cite>You didn't say what type of insulation batts were used?</blockquote>

    Insulation is glass mineral wool - Superglass - I think, although not currently at home to check the packaging.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeNov 20th 2024 edited
     
    Under the text box labelled "Enter your comments" it says "Format comments as" and then there are two radiobuttons labelled Text and Html. If you choose Html it will show the quotes properly. Some people seem to have problems doing various things using various browsers on various devices, so maybe that's another thing that doesn't work in some circumstances.

    edit to add: If you format as Html, then any links you include won't work (they're just text). They do work if you format as Text.

    You can edit posts if you want to experiment.

    There's no way to delete a post. You can either change the text to a single dot, or somesuch, or you can edit the post to be a whisper to yourself, which makes it disappear for everybody else.
  3.  
    It seems ridiculous that builders let insulation get soaked as fairly common practice. This must have been happening for 40 years. I can see it's a bit of an arse to cover if the leaves are at different heights and it's windy, plus the problem of rain when you want to be working but seems pretty poor to just let it get wet.

    How long do you reckon to dry once it's covered (and sealed at the top, which isn't going to help)? It's full fill glass mineral wool, but the cavity is ventilated at the bottom (I think into the void under the floor as well as to the outside) and it's a brick outer leaf. Will one summer do it?

    I guess if it caused significant damp on the inside wall it would be a known problem and builders wouldn't do this. Whereas just badly compromising the U-value of the wall will be well-hidden. Sigh - wall looked so snuggly warm as it was going up in the dry weather.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2024
     
    If the house is warmer than outdoors then moisture in the form of water vapour will move out through the wall and waft away. I reckon allow 25mm per month to dry out in summer.
  4.  
    Thanks tony.
    What do you mean by 25 mm? Is that thickness of insulation i.e. 150 mm cavity will take 6 months?
    • CommentAuthorMike1
    • CommentTimeNov 21st 2024
     
    Posted By: do_discimusSuperglass - I think... It seems ridiculous that builders let insulation get soaked as fairly common practice.
    Clear bad practice. And, unsurprisingly, the Superglass BBA certificate says:

    "3.3 Partially completed walls should be protected from inclement weather (eg wind, rain or snow) and covered at the end of the day's work."

    I wonder what other corners are being cut?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 22nd 2024
     
    I have opened up a thousand cavity walls during the process of building extensions and only one had wet insulation, the vast majority being bone dry. the wet one had an incredibly poorly installed flashing that was wetting the outside skin of the house/ garage
  5.  
    That's encouraging, Tony.

    Our main end elevation on the house faces south - catches all the rain obviously - and had cavity wall insulation added before we moved in. A few years ago it had water coming through because it needed repointing and I guess some combination of wall ties and insulation was allowing the rain to cross the cavity. But opening up a new window in roughly the same spot last week, the insulation was more-or-less dry. So that fits, too.

    Think we've got the walls well covered now with planks and polythene. Taking this off for dry days. I'm thinking it will dry a bit even at this time of year with the sun on it and the top of the cavity open.
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