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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorlineweight
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2019
     
    Posted By: Doubting_Thomas
    Posted By: lineweightIs it offered as a 'system' by GBS? In other words if you give them the dimensions, weight of your door frame etc can they confirm whether this detail will work?


    I don't think so, I'm afraid.

    From memory I ended up doing some rough calculations that others on here helped out with. See second half of this thread: http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=11503&page=1

    The safety factor was big enough that I felt comfortable using it. Plus I also checked it with the supplier of the Isoquick and the Sliding Doors and it's a fairly standard approach.


    Thanks, was useful to have a read of that thread.
    • CommentAuthorlineweight
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2019
     
    Posted By: lineweightComing back to this... further investigations brought me to "structural cavity closers" and products from Cavalok who seem to be part of Eurocell.

    This has been mentioned in a previous thread, I see:

    http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9392

    It's hard to find any very useful information on the Eurocell site. I had a bit of a confusing conversation with one of their technical people, where I tried to explain that I wanted to understand whether they can offer something that will span a cavity under the sill and take the weight of a door/window installed above it. His answer seemed to be that this would never be an issue because the frame itself can simply span the cavity, but that's not what the window installers I've talked to have said. They always want a continuous solid base across the depth of the frame.

    Anyway - they pointed me to here:

    https://www.subframes.co.uk/cavity-closers/structural-door-packs/

    And I'm making some enquiries with them. But I think that this system is not actually designed to be load bearing across the bottom horizontal member - it's more that you can fix directly into the jamb closers and they will transfer the load into the outer and inner leaves.


    By the way regarding the above - the answer was very much that no, the bottom member is not supposed to be load bearing.
    • CommentAuthorlineweight
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2019
     
    Posted By: djhWell, you could fasten the compacfoam to whatever forms the edge of your timber floor structure. I presume there's some kind of perimeter beam. Might need to check the engineering - double up the beam or something in that area.


    Sure...although in this case the floor joists are by default hung off the masonry.

    It could be possible to change that, so that they sit on top of the masonry, with some sort of perimeter beam that compacfoam could be bolted into - but in any case the compacfoam could then sit directly onto the masonry wall, like the timbers. In this arrangement the compacfoam doesn't need to sit on top of insulation, so the bolting-through would become less critical.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeMar 28th 2019
     
    Posted By: lineweightthe compacfoam could then sit directly onto the masonry wall, like the timbers

    If the masonry is wide enough to accomodate both, that sounds like an ideal solution.
  1.  
    Another +1 for Compacfoam - we used that a couple of years ago for 2 x Rationel sliding door sets.
    • CommentAuthornstansbury
    • CommentTimeApr 4th 2019 edited
     
    So this is a prescient discussion.... our large sliding patio doors went in today.

    We went with Maxlight, a London company who we were very happy with, but their standard detail was to install onto a concrete upstand, which I point blank refused - and so my journey into insulated upstands commenced!

    Internally, the floor is a flush finished 75mm polished concrete screed on top of 50mm K103 which is on top of the original slab. Isolating the polished concrete was a key criteria for me to preserve the thermal mass in the house, and so a huge thermal bridge in the rear of the house was just a flat out no.

    I originally spec'd Marmox Thermoblocks, which both our SE and Marmox were happy with, however Maxlight's engineers were concerned about the bending moments not being restrained by the concrete pillars inside them, as each door panel was 230Kgs.

    The SE and myself went through a number of options none very satisfactory, until we came across Armadillo's Armatherm. https://www.armatherm.co.uk/products/500-structural-thermal-break-material/

    This is a structural insulation that comes pre-cut to size that is literally just bolted into the slab underneath. I actually thought I'd been sent the wrong product as it's so light and looks like a few lengths of 2x4 timber!

    Super simple to drill through, fixed at 400 c/c with countersunk M8 bolts and then silicone sealed, standard DPC on top. Despite this non-standard detail the install team cracked on. They were concerned that as it was so soft that their fixings wouldn't hold, but found their M8 fixings of the track into the Armatherm were perfectly robust.

    The team said actually was easier to install onto than a normal concrete upstand because it was dead flat & smooth, so easier to fix & seal.

    Only downside - it's damn expensive stuff, but for the performance and ease of install it delivered what we wanted - YMMV.

    Attached some pics from today and the original drawings I produced with Thermoblocks replaced with Armatherm

    Cheers,

    N
  2.  
    Upstand
      IMG_4919.JPG
    • CommentAuthornstansbury
    • CommentTimeApr 4th 2019 edited
     
    Track
      IMG_4921.JPG
  3.  
    Installed
      IMG_4930.JPG
  4.  
    Thanks, useful to see drawing and photos. Did you consider putting a bit of perimeter insulation between the back of the aluminium track and the screed slab?
  5.  
    There's only a 10mm miothene strip running around the floor perimeter and between the track & screed. I can't get away with anything more in front of the track without it becoming visible. I do want to run a 40mm strip along the gable wall, but not had confirmation from the screed co. I can do that yet.
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