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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2019
     
    I'm about to receive the cladding for my renovation. I'm happy with the build up on the single skin extension, (K12 Kingspan Insulation, breather membrane, battens, cladding) but unsure if I need a breather membrane where the cladding spans the existing house. I'm thinking just batten onto the traditional brick/block cavity wall without the need for a membrane, but unsure if this is correct?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 19th 2019
     
    Should be fine, I would spacer the battens 3 or 4mm off the masonry with say washers or plastic packers
    • CommentAuthorIan1961
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2019
     
    There's absolutely no need for a breather membrane over the top of your existing external brick wall.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2019
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: tony</cite>Should be fine, I would spacer the battens 3 or 4mm off the masonry with say washers or plastic packers</blockquote>

    This.

    I once put battens along a retaining wall so I could clad the blockwork with feather-edge boards and I used plastic spacers everywhere! Result: 10 years on and there is no sign of rotten battens! Plenty of spaces for air to circulate and water to run through.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 20th 2019
     
    andyman99 - can I ask if your traditional brick/block cavity wall has insulation within it?
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2019
     
    Thanks all. Yes the old bungalow does currently have cavity wall insulation. The cladding is a couple of small spans front and back, a total of under 30m2 to try and tie in the extension to the existing house. Whilst renovating I've done my best to ensure all external walls are breathable both internally and externally with the exception of a couple of metre span on the single walled extension which needs to have something less friendly due to depth limitations. There is also an MVHR system waiting to be turned on.

    I'm still looking for a product to insulate the small section of single skin wall under the cladding. I was looking at Kingspan K12 but the quote is north of £100 / sheet. The merchant has mentioned Recticel Eurathane GP, but I'm not sure if this is equivalent?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2019
     
    I would double the thickness of the battens or recess one into double thickness eps.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 22nd 2019
     
    andyman99 - OK thanks. I was curious as our bungalow has cavity walls filled with Rockwool fibre and I have often thought about doing a DIY EWI job with cladding (rather than any kind of thin render which I would not have the expertise to apply). Didn't there used to be a worry about interstitial condensation in the cavity when putting EWI on the outside or am I mixing this up with something else? Thinking about it that doesn't make sense because the cavity should be warmer with EWI?
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2019 edited
     
    Jeff, I think EWI and cladding would be quite a big job? I did consider doing just the insulation part myself (under the render) but the renderers were discouraging and tbh I'm glad I let them do it all. Their team finished the work in 4/5 days and I think it would have taken me 4/5 months. We are treating our cladding with SiOO:X which is meant to preserve and help age the wood evenly. That in itself is a big job as it comprises of 2 parts and the "Part A" coat needs to be applied twice. Still nice weekend for it.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2019
     
    I was just thinking that cladding would be ok for a DIY-er like myself whereas I would not attempt any kind of rendering. I can just about plaster a hole in a wall never mind an entire wall! I had never heard of that SiOO-X before but it looks goods stuff. (Wish I had known about it before I treated the decking on our summerhouse!). I am retired so time is not so much of an issue.

    How do you deal with window/door reveals when using wooden cladding - are there suitable architraves and internal/external corner fittings to be had?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2019
     
    I never treat cedar, it is naturally durable and rotproof.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 25th 2019
     
    Tony - we have a big problem with algae on the walls of our bungalow and that's using a special anti-algae paint! Untreated wood would be bright green within 12 months.
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2019 edited
     
    Cladding can look great initially, but it often goes through a phase when bits that are protected remain nearly new and those that are more exposed start to weather to grey. Can look a bit of a mess until it all weathers. (of course not everyone sees this the same).

    We have some solid pieces of cedar for external corners, which sit nearly flush with the cladding or thin angled bits are also available that overlap. You just butt internal corners. I think there are a few area where we will need to make our own edge pieces. Never put up cladding before, so you are not talking to an expert! (yet...)
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 27th 2019
     
    We just used a couple of flat boards at right angles to make an external corner.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 28th 2019
     
    Andyman99 and djh - thanks for your replies. I guessed that might be the case. Are you concerned about the possibility of water ingress behind the boards at the joins?
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 28th 2019
     
    Andy - in an earlier post you said that you considered doing the EWI yourself but you were glad that you let contractors do it in the end. I'm a bit confused because you mentioned the renderers did it ALL. Presumably they just did the insulation part but did not go on to render it. I am correct in thinking then that currently your house is covered with EWI and is just awaiting cladding in cedar? Sorry to be thick!
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 28th 2019
     
    Posted By: Jeff BAndyman99 and djh - thanks for your replies. I guessed that might be the case. Are you concerned about the possibility of water ingress behind the boards at the joins?

    That's what the breathable membrane behind the cladding is for. Cladding is designed to be able to get wet on both sides.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 28th 2019
     
    djh - ok. So where would this go - under or over the battens? I'm assuming that the battens serve a dual purpose, to hold the insulation to the house wall and provide something to secure the cedar cladding to. If under the battens then they too will be exposed to rain but I think preferably over and fill the gaps between the battens with more EPS (e.g. 1inch if using 2 x 1 sawn timber battens) so as to have a level surface for the membrane?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 28th 2019
     
    The membrane goes behind the battens, flat against the insulation. The battens hold the membrane in place. The space in front of the membrane behind the cladding is for water to drain down, and for fresh air to circulate and help dry everything.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeAug 28th 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: andyman99K12 Kingspan Insulation, breather membrane


    Just for info.. Not all makes of insulation and breather membrane say they can be installed in contact with each other. As I recall Kingspan make a membrane that they say can be installed in contact with insulation.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeAug 28th 2019
     
    When nailing cladding to batten there is an issue at the ends where planks butt together. Nails should typically be >1" from the end of planks. So 2" between the two sets of nails. A problem if your batten is only 38mm wide.

    If your cladding will have lots of such joints there is an argument for installing battens in pairs spaced a few inches apart. Otherwise fit short lengths of battens where there will be joints as you go.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 28th 2019
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: djh</cite>The membrane goes behind the battens, flat against the insulation. The battens hold the membrane in place. The space in front of the membrane behind the cladding is for water to drain down, and for fresh air to circulate and help dry everything.</blockquote>

    I guess that's only practicable if the insulation is not too thick. How would this method work with 200mm EPS - massively long fixings required?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 28th 2019
     
    Posted By: Jeff BHow would this method work with 200mm EPS - massively long fixings required?

    Exactly. That's why they make long fittings specifically for fixing through insulation.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2019
     
    I had no idea you could obtain such long fixings but yes, as you say, they are indeed available as I discovered on the Internet e.g. EWI Store.
    • CommentAuthorandyman99
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: Jeff BAndy - in an earlier post you said that you considered doing the EWI yourself but you were glad that you let contractors do it in the end. I'm a bit confused because you mentioned the renderers did it ALL. Presumably they just did the insulation part but did not go on to render it. I am correct in thinking then that currently your house is covered with EWI and is just awaiting cladding in cedar? Sorry to be thick!


    We put an extension on the side of our bungalow, this is mainly single skin block with EWI/render. This was all done by an external team. However a small part at the front and rear is to be clad and the cladding spans the extension and the existing house. This is the bit I'm currently doing.
      IMG_3509 2.jpeg
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeAug 29th 2019
     
    Andy - ok, thanks. I look forward to seeing pics of the finished article and any comments/advice you might like to share after your experience.
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