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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorHoveTom
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2019
     
    I’m having a complete new rewire of my house done shortly during major renovation and am looking for any tips or suggestions.

    More sockets than I think? Position of? Any particular type of socket? I’m not massively into smart home gadgets but assuming this rewire will be with me for sometime anything simple I can ask the electrician to do to future proof my house without it costing the Earth?

    I don’t want to start a thread for smart home fanatics about the best way to set up home network cables or WiFi devices as that’s a separate subject ( ish ) as I’m presently planning sockets looking at my house plans, but, any and all advice on first fix electrics appreciated.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2019 edited
     
    Do a full ethernet job because on the back of the mounting health alarm about 5G radiation, all the other recent radiations - 4G and lower, wifi incl IoT, radio-link broadband, are going to come under scrutiny at last. Suddenly everyone will be reverting to hard wiring.
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2019
     
    Get him to install a kill switch for your DECT telephones and WiFi etc. !

    gg
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2019
     
    As you've spotted, it's not just a question of enough sockets, it's a question of where to put them. I tried to put at least one on every separate 'piece of wall' (i.e. between doorways and/or corners). I put them 400 mm away from the doorway (light switches are 100 mm from doorways). If I did it again, I might be tempted to put one 400 mm away from either side of every doorway. I also put a dozen double sockets in a special box in the corner of the living room, but maybe half that many would be adequate.

    I also installed 2.5 T+G cables to several points that I thought might require high power loads (mainly heaters) and led them back to the consumer unit. I've connected those few where I've actually installed heaters. Having dedicated radial circuits mean they can be controlled more precisely if I ever choose to automate them. There are dedicated circuits for various kitchen appliances and then a couple of ring circuits for upstairs and downstairs (and a couple of similar lighting circuits with careful mismatches to ensure there is still light available if any one circuit trips). There's also an alarm circuit and a solar circuit.

    I installed ethernet points everywhere I thought they might be required, with a couple of hubs connecting them all together. I used cat-5e since it's simpler to install than cat-6 and haven't felt the need for any greater speed. I use wired connections wherever possible, but obviously mobile devices use wi-fi. My ISP-supplied router covers the whole house with wi-fi, but I could just plug in another repeater if necessary.

    I don't worry about electromagnetic radiation :)
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2019
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: gyrogear</cite>Get him to install a kill switch for your DECT telephones and WiFi etc</blockquote>What's that for? just overnight?
    BTW DECT is the strongest source of such radiation by a factor of ten or something - have wired phones.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2019
     
    Posted By: fostertomBTW DECT is the strongest source of such radiation by a factor of ten or something - have wired phones.

    What's your source for this particular 'fact', Tom? Given that DECT phones operate pretty close to one of the mobile bands but at a quarter of the power.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2019
     
    Posted By: djhit's not just a question of enough sockets

    I forgot to mention. I just replaced one double socket with a pair that include USB charging capability, so I could power an IoT security camera. We still charge phones using chargers plugged in to regular sockets though.
  1.  
    If you use table lamps or reading lights or mood lamps or what ever consider having 5A sockets for lamps wired back to a wall switch by the door so that as you walk out of the room you can switch off all the lamps at once.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: djhWhat's your source for this particular 'fact', Tom? Given that DECT phones operate pretty close to one of the mobile bands but at a quarter of the power.
    e.g. http://www.tetrawatch.net/media/bfs_dect.pdf

    Google "radiation from dect" - loads there e.g. German Federal Agency For Radiation Protection (Bundesamt für Strahlenschutz – BfS) http://www.tetrawatch.net/science/dect.php

    "Unlike mobile phones, DECT cordless phones work at a fixed power. Mobiles turn their power down to the lowest level possible, so when you are near a base station this can be much lower than a DECT cordless. DECT pulses are far more aggressive than for mobiles."

    ".... DECT phones, as they could be up to 100 times worse than an ordinary mobile, particularly if used in built up areas. The reason for this is the frequency of the pulse. DECT pulses at 100Hz whilst a GSM mobile pulses at 217Hz. Remember, the lower the pulsing frequency, the stronger the biological effect. It’s the pulsing within the ELF (extremely low frequency) range we have to be concerned about. That’s why TETRA is so dangerous. It pulses at 17.6Hz, right within the human beta brainwave rhythm range."

    Seems there are now DECT phones with 'eco' settings but onerous to make them really stop https://www.beneficialenvironments.co.uk/low-radiation-cordless-dect-phones
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2019
     
    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryIf you use table lamps or reading lights or mood lamps or what ever consider having 5A sockets for lamps wired back to a wall switch by the door so that as you walk out of the room you can switch off all the lamps at once.

    Perhaps a good idea, although you need to anticipate exactly where you might want the auxiliary lights. I think I'd be more inclined to use a wireless switch and wireless relays in the light circuits, though we haven't felt the need for this either.
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2019
     
    Yes, Tom, it is essentially for night, ''not just'' for folks using double beds with a DECT at each side... but for anybody WHO has doubts about WHO no's What...

    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5504984/

    "Repacholi acted like a representative for the telecom industry while responsible for the EMF health effects department at the WHO"

    etc.

    gg
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2019
     
    Posted By: fostertome.g. http://www.tetrawatch.net/media/bfs_dect.pdf

    Right:

    "The maximum allowed SAR rate is as follows:
    0.08 W/kg for the entire body
    2.00 W/kg for parts of the body, for example for the head
    DECT telephones have a SAR value for the head of less than 0.1 W/kg, a fraction of the recommended guideline of 2.0 W/kg."

    "there is no conclusive proof that they cause health damage, as long
    as the guidelines are not exceeded. A particular danger from pulsed systems, as it is often
    claimed, has not yet been scientifically proven."

    And that's for the ten-year old technology, not current day systems. Elsewhere they say the principal biological effect is heating, so if your ears get warm put the phone down for a bit.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2019
     
    I have a switch by my bed to switch off the landing light
    Table lamps controlled from the switch by the door, in fact all lights in the lounge are.

    Switch by bed for bedroom light.

    Door switches in cupboards

    Stairs lights from top and bottom

    Appliance isolators Not behind appliances, I like them all together in one wall cupboard in in a cupboard next to them, least favourite is in the tiled splash back.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: djhthey say the principal biological effect is heating, so if your ears get warm put the phone down for a bit
    The industry has mainstreamed the idea that brain tissue microwave-heating is the sole criterion for biological damage from phone radiation - because it's easy to comply with safety standards for that - almost the only criterion that's regulated.

    But heating is just the tip of the iceberg of biological effects observed by numerous non-industry researchers, which are mainly pervasive i.e. aren't 'cured' by moving the phone away from the ear, but poorly understood because deliberately unresearched and/or supressed by big-gun industry. Remember the tobacco industry?

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2JI7-9_FRYc
    See other testimonies to this Senate Committe also esp Dr Sharon Goldberg.

    https://pongcase.com/blog/cell-phone-radiation-affect-brains-activity
    "The observed brain activity change cannot be explained by only a heating (or thermal) effect as a result of temperature rise from energy absorption. However, no underlying biological mechanism has been identified to explain the effects. We also don’t know what health consequence may be resulted from such repeated stimulations. More research is still needed to understand the mechanism and long-term health effects of cell phone radiation on humans. The current safety standard did not take into account any non-thermal effects, such as evidenced in the above studies. As of today there is no known safe level of exposure to cell phone radiation."

    "effects of cell phone radiation on humans" - not just humans - animals and plants too - a component of the extinction crisis.

    Radiation screening as good or better than an aftermarket Pong case could be incorporated in mobile phones for pennies - but the manufacturers won't because it would be an admission that the radiation is harmful. Remember the tobacco industry?

    Look online at the new uproar of health (and surveillance) alarm over the 5G rollout - orders of magnitude stronger than previous anti-mast anti-wifi agitation. It's all coming out at last.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2019
     
    So you believe official sources as long as they agree with your pre-formed opinion and then disregard them when they disagree?
    • CommentAuthorbhommels
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2019
     
    For the kitchen worktop lighting I have PIR sensors wired in so they come on automatically, and switch off after a fixed delay after inactivity. Really nice not having to switch on the lights when you have dough on your hands (or worse)
  2.  
    Install electric car chargers on your driveway - good to get the right system earthing in place for this at get go as this seems to be a minefield with latest 18th edition of regs.

    Think about possible future heatpump, solar panels, home battery, electric shower, garden lighting, workshop power, induction hob, etc etc that you aren't installing now but might need a fat cable run to them in future.

    Have a consumer unit with 30% more spare MCB slots than the sparky thinks you'll need

    Put the kitchen sockets on their own RCD or mcbo so you don't lose the freezer if something else trips while you are on holiday.

    Put visible supplementary bonding on everything that looks anything like a pipe or bathroom fitting, otherwise future electricians will suck their teeth and start inventing essential rectification work.

    Decide where you want to run wiring for burglar alarm, TV aerials, phone points, smoke detectors etc while the floors are up.
    • CommentAuthorFlubba
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2019
     
    Should be doable with every circuit on an RCBO if you look around online you can get them for very reasonable prices and no I'm not even talking about oddly named brands made in China.

    The other future looking curiosities I would consider are any physical impact varying time of day tariffs and metering / consumption monitoring will have on how things are setup. There are a lot of neat DIN rail mountable kWh and other meters that would be interesting if your into home automation and tech in general.

    Despite all that there is certainly an argument for keeping it simple and controlling costs because standards change and technology is continually evolving especially as the way we produce and consume electricity is being somewhat reinvented.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2019
     
    Posted By: djhSo you believe official sources as long as they agree with your pre-formed opinion and then disregard them when they disagree?
    What do you prefer Dave - automatically believe 'official sources'?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2019
     
    Sorry to have hijacked the thread with 5G and all that!
  3.  
    Forgot to say: avoid recessed downlighters in the ceiling, they are difficult to get airtight.

    Consider putting the CU somewhere where it is easy to run extra circuits when future needs become apparent - eg on a false back to the understairs cupboard. It doesn't necessarily have to be next to the meter, but now would be a good time to move the meter if it is somewhere awkward.

    Best decide if you are going to do internal wall insulation, as there's no point chasing cables into plaster that you subsequently insulate over, and the insulation affects the cable ratings. (Edit: also acoustic insulation)
    • CommentAuthorHoveTom
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2019
     
    Thanks all, some good suggestions here.

    I’d also like to wire in some motion sensor night lights for night time loo visits without waking the whole house up. I see I can easily buy inexpensive plug in or battery powered ones I stick to the wall which would be perfect for a retrofit but would feel like a bit of a fail if I’ve just had the whole house rewired.

    Does anyone know of any mains powered ones I could point my electrician in the direction of?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2019
     
    Posted By: HoveTomI’d also like to wire in some motion sensor night lights for night time loo visits without waking the whole house up. I see I can easily buy inexpensive plug in or battery powered ones I stick to the wall which would be perfect for a retrofit but would feel like a bit of a fail if I’ve just had the whole house rewired.

    The plug-in ones are so cheap, I don't understand why you would consider them a fail? They're what we use. It's a good use for some of the many sockets you will have placed! :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorHoveTom
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2019
     
    Fail is probably a bit strong. I thought a hard wired option would be simpler in the long run and more aesthetic but having spent longer than I’d like looking for them I’ve given up ( I’d have to get a separate PIR sensor and wire that to separate lights). The dedicated PIR sensors don't switch off in day light like the cheap plug in ones do either so it looks like I’d better plan on a few more sockets.
    • CommentAuthorwellburn
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2019
     
    get a neutral wire to all your main light switches.
    Means you can put smart switches in in the future, - much cheaper than smart bulbs.

    5am switched sockets is a good idea.

    lay a smooth bore conduet from BT master socket to the heart of your house so WiFi etc can be centrally located.
    • CommentAuthorMike1
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: HoveTomI’d also like to wire in some motion sensor night lights for night time loo visits without waking the whole house up.

    Does anyone know of any mains powered ones I could point my electrician in the direction of?

    These people may be able to adapt their staircase kit for your purpose: https://www.stellarlighting.co.uk/stair-lighting" > (seem to be made by http://www.stairled.eu/intelligent-stairs-illumination.html" >) Cool, but probably OTT and not cheap. May be looking for something similar myself soon...
    •  
      CommentAuthorJustin
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2019
     
    Hello.. A very long time since I'be been here but I opened it up this morning to search for some views elsewhere..

    I'd strongly recommend that you ask your electrician to fit 3core+earth to light switches, and hence retain an (unused & safely terminated) neutral at switches. This eases any future-proofing where you might want functional switches which need a power supply. Of course for 2-and 3-way switching, this would need a another spare core (since these already use 3c+E), hence two cables of 2C+E in these locations could suffice to provide a neutral.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 29th 2019
     
    One question in my mind is whether any power or wiring at all is needed at switch locations. If one committed to the idea of using the Qinetic system throughout (or an equivalent) then all switches are unpowered. The only wiring that is needed is power to everywhere there might be a desire for a luminaire, so that a receiver and luminaire(s) can be fitted.

    I haven't had any problems so far with my wireless switches, so this is starting to look like an attractive possibility to me were I contemplating a new build or a refurb. I expect the material and labour savings of not fitting switches and associated wiring would pay for the receivers and wireless switches.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2019
     
    Posted By: djhOne question in my mind is whether any power or wiring at all is needed at switch locations.
    I would not want to rely on batteries (also worse for environment?). So a single power cable would be my minimum requirement.

    Personally, I would do everything in star going back to one or more central points. This potentially allows for per socket energy monitoring and reconfiguring of lighting etc.

    Despite appearances, I don't subscribe to wireless for everything. I have never understood why the PowerLine system has not taken off for infrastructure control. Transmitting the control data down the powewr wires seems a no-brainer to me. Then fitting relays whether to fittings, sockets or centrally would be a simple matter. Control would also then be a piece of cake - all you need is to connect to the mains the hub/interface device.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeOct 1st 2019
     
    Posted By: borpinI would not want to rely on batteries

    The switches don't have batteries.
   
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