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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentTimeApr 1st 2007 edited
    From http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum/index2.php?DATEIN=tpc_hnovqhocr_1163970597&LP=true

    >brand new sashes can be fitted within existing sash windowcases, allowing optimum-thickness (24mm, with 16mm airgap) DG units in best-practice deep rebates using dry glazing tapes, rather than bedding in mastic (which is death to dg units).

    New sashes can be 56mm or more deep, in place of the usual 44mm. The bit that runs in the frame remains 44dp; extra depth spreads inboard and outboard within the depth of the staff bead and the fixed outer facing (whatever that's called); it's surprisingly unnoticeable. The sightline width remains 44mm, as normal.

    The sashes are glazed-in, not glazed-out. The normal bevelled putty profile is reproduced as part of the outboard rebate platform. Inboard there's a timber bead incorporating the usual mould shape. Hell, difficult to describe. Anyone who wants, I'll post a drawing - email me at info at space-and-light dot co dot uk. I've failed to send same to 2 people who've requested same previously - I will do it, promise.

    Sash weights will have to be doubled in weight, to counterbalance 2 panes instead of one (the timber weight is negligible compared with the glass)<

    Here at last is the detail - hope it works here: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c301/fostertom/Waterheadwindows.jpg

    It shows newbuild sash windowcase but such sashes *can* also be fitted into existing windowcases, with a stepped-edge to the sash - I'd describe further if nec.
    The tricky bit is getting a glazing bar to match the delicacy of 19th century fashion, supporting the dg unit and covering its seals.
    • CommentTimeApr 3rd 2007 edited
    This is it, for me: http://i30.photobucket.com/albums/c301/fostertom/Waterheadwindows002.jpg . If doublesided tape can hold car rubbing-strips.... never had any trouble with bars falling off, but requires scrupulous de-greasing, no fingerprints. Also shows the hinged sash version, with nice fat draughtstrip grooved into the sash not the frame, and wide non-jamming gap around the frame, just like Scandinavian-type windows.

    So just one dg unit per sash. Someone on this forum said they hated that but I'm totally OK with it and only one client's ever objected, and she objected to everything so doesn't count! I wouldn't do without sash bars - and they must be correct, narrow, where appropriate. Being able to see 'through' them when you squint sideways I kind of like - subtly-visible evidence of 21st century priorities valuing and incorporating what's important from the past, rather than having to choose one or the other.
    Fountainbridge Glass in Edinburgh manufacture a patented range of DG for retrofit/new replica georgian sashes under the 'slimlite' name. My son plans to use them on a new build.
    Yes Tom, stick on glazing bars can look the part from a distance but it's a fake, like repro-furniture. I kind of sympathise with yor client who doesn't count:)

    Slimlite have a rather slim air space which means their U-value seem to, er, challenge the laws of physics.
    • CommentTimeApr 4th 2007
    Posted By: biffvernonbut it's a fake, like repro-furniture
    Yes it's an issue, an extension of the Appearance Doesn't Matter debate. Thicker sashes is also 'fake', so is Slimlite dg units in existing sashes. Where do you draw the line? As a SPAB member (still am) I too used to be purist about these issues but eventually got a feel for what authenticity you need to insist upon, as vital to what people experience and enjoy in an old building - and what you can give way on, and really no-one's experience and enjoyment is diminished. Further to that, I'm suggesting, as I said above, in this new energy-priority world, that people's enjoyment will include reassurance from "subtly-visible evidence of 21st century priorities valuing and incorporating what's important from the past, rather than having to choose one or the other". In other words, this building's been updated, its future is assured, and look, no harm's been done.
    I agree :smile:
    • CommentAuthorGuest
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2007
    I have obtained info on Slimlite from their Kent agent, www.sashglass.co.uk, which claims the U-values for this gas filled product are: 11.2mm thickness - 2, 14.8mm - 1.6, 16.4mm - 1.4.
    However, these seem to relate only to the DG units. If inserted into a 40mm thich timber frame and allowing the usual 30/70 frame/glass ratio I calculate this gives overall window U-values of 2.27, 1.9 and 1.7 respectively.
    I believe that only the thicker unit would be allowed under Building Regs for extensions (without a whole-house SAP justfication), but the others would be OK for exempt listed building works. A client has just ordered some 11.2mm units for window renovation work to his a listed (former chapel) home, AT THE SUGGESTION OF THE LOCAL PLANNING AND CONSERVATION OFFICERS (North Devon DC) so obviously not everyone hates them!
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2007
    Of course the difference between whole window and centre pane values depends on the size of the window. The bigger the window, the less important is the edge effect.

    It's the U= 1.4 centre pane value for a 16.4 mm unit that intrigues me. I'd be interested to learn who measured this and how.
    • CommentAuthorGuest
    • CommentTimeMay 4th 2007
    Re the last message re slimlite. My sashes don't need replacing, it's just that the glass is Victorian 5mm. Next door have put in thicker glass. Would the slimlite be any better than putting in thicker glass? Please note we are retired and on a small income.
    • CommentAuthorken davis
    • CommentTimeMay 7th 2007
    all you double glazers have a look at my suggestions under 'high quality secondary glazing'.
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