Home  5  Books  5  GBEzine  5  News  5  HelpDesk  5  Register  5  GreenBuilding.co.uk
Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories



Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

Buy individually or both books together. Delivery is free!


powered by Surfing Waves




Vanilla 1.0.3 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome to new Forum Visitors
Join the forum now and benefit from discussions with thousands of other green building fans and discounts on Green Building Press publications: Apply now.




  1.  
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: philedge</cite><blockquote>


    Billions gets spent building by-passes and widening roads when much less money would be needed to put a cycle track (that could be walked on) alongside your 60mph A road. That should be the priority.</blockquote>

    If we want decent take up of cycling as a default means of transport you dont want walkers mixing it with cyclists. Increase the number of people on bikes 10 fold and mixing them with dog walkers, doodlers, mums with kids, prams, music listeners etc etc would be a recipie for disaster.

    Routine cycling needs to be a slick experience and in urban areas needs to match car journey times. Tarmac needs to reassigned from powered vehicles to non powered and 50% of highway designers need to be cyclists.</blockquote>

    Agreed, but it depends on location. In town where there are high pedestrian flows you definitely don't want to mix peds and cyclists. Between towns and villages that are a few miles apart however, alongside country roads, very few people are going to be walking anyway. There absolutely needs to be provision for them off road but building a high quality cycle track that people can walk on is the efficient solution - it's what the Dutch do after all.

    Riding a bike it's really annoying to have to give way to pedestrians every few metres, once or twice a mile isn't a problem.
  2.  
    All good stuff, I think similar thoughts as I pedal my bike along unsuitable roads...

    but with my objective hat on for a moment, why would building a parallel A-road network of cycle paths and persuading say 30% of A-road journeys onto them, be a quicker or cheaper or more certain way to reduce CO2 emissions, than switching say 50% of A-road journeys into electric cars?
    Horses/courses again.

    Confession time: In a previous location, I actually preferred to ride in the roadway, rather than on an infrequently-used cycle path that was always covered in wet leaves:shamed:


    Posted By: Simon
    Posted By: WillInAberdeenI do bike myself in the day, but it's a non starter to bike young kids home along a 60mph rural A-road in the dark. Ditto walking, no pavements.

    3/5 miles - these are trivial distances to cycle. Even less so with an e-bike.


    For you and me today, absolutely. But when we were six years old, it was a huge distance, taking us at least an hour, with several refuelling stops along the way and no chance of a return journey on the same day! I don't think there are many 16" e-bikes out there, but if there are, I can't afford them!

    Posted By:djh
    And you can't plan in advance for things like milk. You need it exactly when you need it.


    OT, but got to ask, what kind of milk is that??? We buy cow's milk. Get it once a week, it lasts ages in the fridge. We get through many litres (kilogrammes) in a week, but don't move it by bike...
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2019
     
    Posted By: GreenPaddyCars do 250 billion vehicle miles per yr in the UK, lorries do 17 billion v m, according to this simple yet informative link..

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/741953/road-traffic-estimates-in-great-britain-2017.pdf
    V enlightening - thanks. See the rocket-growth of LCV (vans) - there's your internet shopping.
    • CommentAuthorSimon Still
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: WillInAberdeenbut with my objective hat on for a moment, why would building a parallel A-road network of cycle paths and persuading say 30% of A-road journeys onto them, be a quicker or cheaper or more certain way to reduce CO2 emissions, than switching say 50% of A-road journeys into electric cars?
    Horses/courses again.

    Confession time: In a previous location, I actually preferred to ride in the roadway, rather than on an infrequently-used cycle path that was always covered in wet leave


    You'd probably need carrot (high quality bike path) and stick (road pricing or some other way of increasing the marginal cost of driven trips) BUT look at the stats for the NL and you'll see that really significant numbers of trips are cycled without much difference to motoring costs.

    Electric cars remove local tailpipe emissions but we're a long way from a CO2 free electricity grid in the UK, and big increases in electric cars are going to need all sorts of electricity system upgrades from the generation to distribution to domestic supply upgrades and install of chargers. Electric cars don't address congestion, road danger or our inactivity health crisis.

    It really is worth looking at the national travel survey - the number of trips under 5miles and even under 1mile that are currently made by car is truly shocking. The average commute in the UK is under 10miles - I used to ride that daily in London on a normal bike, and with an e-bike it really would be no problem for the majority of the population (maybe they'd need to build up to doing it every day, and maybe they'd be slower at first, but fitness comes surprisingly quickly)

    Yet I fully accept in rural areas there are many places where roads without pavements coupled with high traffic speeds mean these trips couldn't be walked. But budget for walking and cycling gets doled out in lots of 10 or 20 million while HS2 has a projected cost of £85bn.

    https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/729521/national-travel-survey-2017.pdf
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2019
     

    but with my objective hat on for a moment, why would building a parallel A-road network of cycle paths and persuading say 30% of A-road journeys onto them, be a quicker or cheaper or more certain way to reduce CO2 emissions, than switching say 50% of A-road journeys into electric cars?

    Because EVs are dirty polluting things in much the same way as ICE vehicles, only slightly less so?? The only significant benefit appears to be that the fuel emmisions are taken out of cities but that wont do much for the climate crisis. Brake and tyre dust emissions are rumoured to increase with EVs compared with similar sized ICE vehicles due to the extra battery weight.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2019 edited
     
    but with my objective hat on for a moment, why would building a parallel A-road network of cycle paths and persuading say 30% of A-road journeys onto them, be a quicker or cheaper or more certain way to reduce CO2 emissions, than switching say 50% of A-road journeys into electric cars?

    Because a cycle track doesn't need to carry anywhere near the same weight as a road, or indeed be anywhere near as wide, so doesn't cost anywhere near the same to build. So switching journeys onto bicycles increases road capacity much more cheaply than building new roads.
  3.  
    "Brake and tyre dust emissions"

    to which you can also add wear to the road surface (another petroleum product), and resuspension of existing dust.
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2019
     
    Not clear why an EV creates more brake dust. Yes they may be heavier but I presumed regenerative braking would lessen the work brakes have to do.

    Interesting idea here for lorries https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-50223895/could-electric-roads-spark-a-green-transport-revolution?intlink_from_url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.bbc.co.uk%2Fnews%2Fscience_and_environment&link_location=live-reporting-map
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2019
     
    Posted By: BeauInteresting idea here for lorries

    Given the contracts already signed by major haulage firms for the Tesla semi and its competitors, I'm not convinced that electrifying the roads is going to prove necessary or desirable.
    • CommentAuthorMike1
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2019 edited
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: philedge</cite>
    Tarmac needs to reassigned from powered vehicles to non powered.... </blockquote>
    That definitely needs to be part of the package; just providing cycle lanes / footpaths isn't enough, there is also a need to disincentivate the use of motors.

    For example Stevenage (the London New Town, designed Eric Claxton, who cycled) was built with generous separate cycle and footpath networks, but most people still preferred to drive. And according to this report - https://roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/stevenage/ - they still do; less than 3% of local residents cycle to work (though apparently the post-1970s cycle network additions don't meet the original standards).

    On the other hand, Cambridge is noted for the high number of people cycling. Of course it has plenty of students, but the council have also taken measures - such as blocking cars from streets in the centre, and blocking the provision of student car parking - that make cycling the easiest way of getting around, despite the poor provision of dedicated cycleways elsewhere in the city. (More: http://www.aviewfromthecyclepath.com/2011/11/truth-about-cambridge.html)
    • CommentAuthorSimon Still
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: BeauNot clear why an EV creates more brake dust. Yes they may be heavier but I presumed regenerative braking would lessen the work brakes have to do.
    >


    Cmon this is meant to be a green website. You can't just rely on technology to solve all problems and carry on as before. It needs behaviour change as well.

    Particulate emissions. I can't find the link now but challenged on regenerative braking the author said this was taken into account
    https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S135223101630187X

    Lifetime CO2 emissions of EV vs ICE seems under debate as well - there are some claims that theres little real difference between a diesel and and EV over lifetime when all construction and battery impacts are taken into account. There may also be some serious challenges in availability of raw materials to produce enough batteries for demand (and issues with their mining) https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2019/03/the-dirty-secret-of-electric-vehicles/

    The one thing that is really clear is that EVs don't 'solve all the environmental problems' caused by a society over-dependent on inefficient mobility solutions. At present all the CO2 savings from more efficient engines are being countered by the trend to larger, heavier, less aerodynamic SUVs.
    Average mass of cars up by 10% from 2010 to 2016. https://www.theguardian.com/environment/ng-interactive/2019/oct/25/suvs-second-biggest-cause-of-emissions-rise-figures-reveal
    Motoring CO2 emissions are rising not falling on an individual vehicle basis as well - https://www.eea.europa.eu/highlights/average-co2-emissions-from-new

    Even if you're in an electrically powered car with carbon neutral energy generation, using a 2 tonne vehicle with 5 seats and luggage capacity to move a single human being with no luggage is not an efficient use of resources.
  4.  
    "For example Stevenage (the London New Town, designed Eric Claxton, who cycled) was built with generous separate cycle and footpath networks, but most people still preferred to drive"

    Carrot AND stick needed - they built a cycle network but still built the city around the car and made it still easier to drive than to cycle.
    • CommentAuthorphiledge
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2019
     
    Both Stevenage and Cambridge are bad examples of whats needed to encourage cycling.

    A few years back I did a few months work in Steveage and although theres lots of underpasses at roundabouts the overall scheme is fragmented with lots of sections mixing it with pedestrians

    Cambridge centre is pretty good but I think that is more because of everyones familiarity and acceptance of bikes. Travelling from Histon on the outskirts into the centre and most of the cycling is with cars and theres next to no specific bike provision.

    Our highway designers need to spend some time in the Netherlands to see how it should be done- separate cycle tracks parallel to main roads with bikes having priority where the cycle tracks cross side roads. On the industrial estate not far from us Flintshire council have recently remarked all side roads that intersect with cycle lanes with give way lines so that bikes have priority and can make good progress. It can be done:)
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeNov 1st 2019 edited
     
    Posted By: philedgeBoth Stevenage and Cambridge are bad examples of whats needed to encourage cycling.

    I've lived in both Stevenage and Cambridge, and cycled and driven in both too.

    Stevenage as designed, and for as long as it was governed by the Development Corporation, was an excellent place for cycling, walking and driving. There were three entirely separate road networks; one for each of the modes. The cycle tracks and footpaths followed the same routes, and they never crossed a road. There were underpasses and bridges at every intersection. As far as driving goes, there were no traffic lights anywhere within the town, and there were derestriction signs at the entrance to every roundabout (speed was governed by roundabout diameter). Once it was given to a council, things degenerated :( and by now I suppose it's the same mess as everywhere else.

    Cambridge is a mess. Yes, lots of people cycle but that's in spite of the infrastructure for the most part. The council built new roads with wide grass verges and didn't build cycle tracks along them. They built special guided busways, which don't join up and leave a fragmented and unpredictable bus service. The park-and-rides are not fit for use because of the time it takes the bus to get to the centre and then on to wherever you actually want to go. But even with sticks like closing roads and raising car park charges (which they made compulsory where I worked, despite my employer's objection) it was still preferable to drive to work.

    Where I live now, the footpath stops at the end of the village and starts again a few hundred yards away at what will be the edge of the town. "They"'ve been saying for years that they will build a footpath for that short distance, but political squabbles mean they haven't. Meanwhile children, disabled and mere mortals have to share the narrow road with cars, artics, buses (oh, no they just cancelled that!), combines, WHY.

    We need a lot more carrot before any stick, IMHO. And in most cases, councils don't seem to appreciate that the carrot has to come before the stick if you want it to work. Imposing restrictions before building solutions doesn't work.

    edit: there's a fascinating articles at https://roadswerenotbuiltforcars.com/stevenage/
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2019
     
    I live in a village, no amenities, 5 miles from a larger village with a Co-op and a couple of pubs and then it's 10/12 miles along busy highways before you can access a supermarket, longer if you take the scenic, safer, route.
    Hardly anyone cycles to work around here and I don't see that changing. Smallish county towns and large villages may not have the employment profiles to suit mass cycling employees.
    I'd be against wasting money on dedicated cycle-ways in such areas, although I appreciate their merit in an Urban and City environment.
    There is one 3 mile stretch of cycle-way near here, along a busy "A" route usually strewn with leaf and hedgerow clipping debris mostly unused, but which gets occasional use by weekend hobbyists or the odd commuter.
    Most cycling around here, (quite a bit), is the leisure sort, not particularly green, really just a hobby, no different from any other.
  5.  
    Posted By: owlmanThere is one 3 mile stretch of cycle-way near here, along a busy "A" route usually strewn with leaf and hedgerow clipping debris mostly unused, but which gets occasional use by weekend hobbyists or the odd commuter.

    When I was living in the UK I worked in Cosham and lived in a village about 30mins cycle from work. I used to cycle if the weather permitted. Country lanes until Cosham then a life in your hands nightmare. But a real problem was hedge cutting by tractor mounted brush cutters = punctures for weeks after !!
    Oh and for anyone who knows the area the ride included Portsdown Hill - up and over keeps you fit tho!
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeNov 2nd 2019
     
    I know it intimately! Saw my first Mini there - heading for the 31 bus after school, two of them pulled up by the Cosham roundabout. 9yr old me asked 'what is it?' - answer - Fiat (as were most small cars thenabouts).
Add your comments

    Username Password
  • Format comments as
 
   
The Ecobuilding Buzz
Site Map    |   Home    |   View Cart    |   Pressroom   |   Business   |   Links   
Logout    

© Green Building Press