Home  5  Books  5  GBEzine  5  News  5  HelpDesk  5  Register  5  GreenBuilding.co.uk
Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories



Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

Buy individually or both books together. Delivery is free!


powered by Surfing Waves




Vanilla 1.0.3 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome to new Forum Visitors
Join the forum now and benefit from discussions with thousands of other green building fans and discounts on Green Building Press publications: Apply now.




    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJan 1st 2020
     
    To me this all sounds like design issues, yes it is difficult to make things work and to change the way we think and see things but this is what progress is all about.

    We need to reduce our energy use,
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 1st 2020 edited
     
    Posted By: willie.macleodThe MVHR system can't sort out the air issues in a timely manner, because the racket of moving that much air would be unacceptable
    The most pleasant rooms by far are any computer rooms which have air conditioning complete with user controls.

    Somewhat of a contradiction there. I imagine opening windows also increases the noise in a room, so I expect what is wrong is the noise spec.

    I wholeheartedly agree with what you say about automatic lighting.

    I too wonder about the quality of the design that is achieved, but are you saying that all of these are horrible places to work?:

    https://www.passivhaustrust.org.uk/news/detail/?nId=675
  1.  
    Posted By: djh
    Somewhat of a contradiction there. I imagine opening windows also increases the noise in a room, so I expect what is wrong is the noise spec.


    In the settings I am used to opening windows doesn't necessarily mean significant noise increases, although that will be very much site specific. What has been an issue for some is the MVHR noise in the non a/c rooms - the split air con units do not have an excess of ducting and have larger grilles/diffusers which helps limit noise.

    Ultimately, all these issues can be resolved but my main point is that on paper it looked good but there is not a huge amount of expertise in designing, building or managing this style of building. Not enough high quality studies, not enough real world feedback being shared. Very little will by builders to resolve issues either once a building is signed off and handed over to a client. In the age of PFI, the end users are unlikely to have any direct contract with the builders and some facilities management company will be involved who may or may not be willing to address any issues not covered specifically in the contract.

    Posted By: djh
    I too wonder about the quality of the design that is achieved, but are you saying that all of these are horrible places to work?:
    https://www.passivhaustrust.org.uk/news/detail/?nId=675


    One thing to note about all of the above is that they are either primary schools or nurseries. Therefore you do not have the massive problem of 1000 plus 100w mobile heaters moving around every hour, you do not have rooms full of cookers, forges, welding plant, bunsen burners, PC suites etc.

    Primaries tend to be much smaller and have less going on so are easier to manage. The buildings in the link above may well be pleasant enough to work in but I'd want to ask someone who worked there first!
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 3rd 2020 edited
     
    Posted By: willie.macleodOne thing to note about all of the above is that they are either primary schools or nurseries.

    Well, apart from the Other Education & Learning Facilities listed, plus the ones in the pipeline eventually. And those details are 2017, so well out of date by now.

    One update https://www.passivhaustrust.org.uk/news/detail/?nId=767
  2.  
    The one building in the list that drew my eye was the Leicester medical centre, that would be an interesting building to visit. Interesting to see they are using 1600m ground tubes for air heat exchange, I think the maintenance of these will be something to keep an eye on - moving around a large volume of air through these and distributing it across a large floor space on multiple stories will be a huge challenge. I wonder what the total length of ducting installed is?

    I don't know how much publicity is given to Scottish health issues elsewhere in the world but some of our new build hospitals are plagued with ventilation system issues, not just from a design perspective but a maintenance one. Large centralised MVHR systems need lots of maintenance and in a building like a hospital it may not be easy to schedule that. Invariably means any contamination will spread quicker and easier than ever before as well. As our building regulations are generally stricter than elsewhere in the UK it may be we are experiencing some of these issues earlier than elsewhere as building designers/builders/maintainers are at the start of a learning curve and may not have huge amounts of experience to draw on.

    The update in your last link (djh) with the school scheduled to complete this year is a 3-18 school, a small one with around 600 pupils across the range rather than the average secondary school size of 1000 pupils. These 3-18 schools have their own design challenges without adding in PH! I don't envy the designers but again it is a small school so that helps.

    I did see the Harris Sutton Academy have a completed PH building, a lack of data online about the building itself and any significant updates as to its performance - the only point that raised an eyebrow was the claim by the designer that pupils felt "more alert" due to the lack of "stuffy feeling that occurs in afternoon classes". I'd prefer to ask a chemistry teacher if they allowed pupils to perform esters experiments without the school smelling for days and if the labs have fixed glazing/any method of boosting the room extraction rate. I'd as for BEMS logs from the facilities maintenance team for each room in the school to see just how well the systems had coped, I should be able to identify classes coming in and leaving, see temperatures and CO2 within pre-defined limits/times. If they can show the data and the teachers/pupils confirm it all works as it should and provides the pleasant environment promised then share the good practice with others! Plans, spec, reviews, the lot. If public money ultimately has been used to pay for it then it should all be placed in the public domain.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJan 4th 2020
     
    Posted By: willie.macleodInteresting to see they are using 1600m ground tubes for air heat exchange, I think the maintenance of these will be something to keep an eye on - moving around a large volume of air through these and distributing it across a large floor space on multiple stories will be a huge challenge.

    Agreed, there have been a number of horror stories about ground tubes. I wonder what cross-sectional area these ones are? It may be possible to run machines or even people through them for inspection and cleaning.

    I don't know how much publicity is given to Scottish health issues elsewhere in the world but some of our new build hospitals are plagued with ventilation system issues, not just from a design perspective but a maintenance one. Large centralised MVHR systems need lots of maintenance and in a building like a hospital it may not be easy to schedule that. Invariably means any contamination will spread quicker and easier than ever before as well.

    Can't say I'd heard of the problems, but perhaps I should have! The lab where I worked took an unusual approach - there were interstitial floors between all the normal floors to contain all the services. So all the ducting and machinery was laid out in a well-lit, accessible space. The lab was partly paid for using money earned from companies started by researchers from the lab, so that may have made it possible. It's just across the road from the new Royal Papworth building and I guess they take a lot of care about the spread of infection there. I have no idea how its done though. I know in our lab there were separate systems for class 4 isolation, and positive and negative pressure areas to control airflow.

    Plans, spec, reviews, the lot. If public money ultimately has been used to pay for it then it should all be placed in the public domain.

    Absolutely! There should be a lot bigger expectation of freedom of information in general, I think. For example, test results should all be public whether paid for publically or privately, I'd say.
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTimeJan 7th 2020
     
    Posted By: willie.macleodmoving around a large volume of air through these and distributing it across a large floor space on multiple stories will be a huge challenge.


    Agree - far better to use a transpired solar facade

    https://www.branz.co.nz/cms_show_download.php?id=bfea8ec4cd5506d205339746407755b194912341


    gg
Add your comments

    Username Password
  • Format comments as
 
   
The Ecobuilding Buzz
Site Map    |   Home    |   View Cart    |   Pressroom   |   Business   |   Links   
Logout    

© Green Building Press