Green Building Forum - Availability of 'Liquid Flashing' products in the UK

Availability of 'Liquid Flashing' products in the UK

ealingbadger — Mon, 13 Jan 2020 20:47:41 +0000

In the 'states, where timber framing of buildings is much more widespread than the UK, there is much use of various liquid flashing products to seal the edges between sheets of OSB sheathing, the rough openings for windows etc., and to seal openings for pipes and cables that need to punch through walls.

I would quite like to get hold of a suitable product for use here in the UK but, try as I might, I cannot seem to turn up anything that appears to be remotely similar to the types of gun applied materials that are being spread onto buildings in the USA.

What am I missing here?

Does liquid flashing go by a different name here in the UK?

Does it exist but only in tins for brush application?

Any brands that you can recommend I take a look at please?

Does anybody have experience with a gun applied flashing product here in the UK?

Any help or guidance would be very much appreciated.

If I can get it I would prefer to use gun applied flashing rather than using tape. I will need tape as well, but wherever possible I would like to use the liquid applied stuff if at all possible.

Availability of 'Liquid Flashing' products in the UK

willie.macleod — Mon, 13 Jan 2020 22:27:30 +0000

I think this is the stuff you are looking for:

https://www.parex.co.uk/External_Walling_Systems/Non_Insulated_Render_Systems/Parexdirect_Mineral_and_Silicane_Render_Systems/Complementary_Products/Weathertech_Weatherseal.aspx

I used it in my build for additional protection around openings (ICF build). Not commonly used over here but not hard to get. Good product. Need to use a bit of thin render fibreglass reinforcement mesh to bridge larger holes. I'm sure you could use a spray gun to apply it but that's a bit OTT, nothing wrong with a brush for all the work it is. I'd use it over tape on a timber frame build as well.

Availability of 'Liquid Flashing' products in the UK

ealingbadger — Tue, 14 Jan 2020 10:31:44 +0000

Thanks for the pointer Willie and I will certainly bear the Parex product in mind.

I continue to be struck though by the paucity of choice for this kind of product on this side of the pond.

I am especially keen to be able to gun the product on because of the convenience of being able to apply it in small amounts here and there as required and to avoid having to clean (or more likely discard) brushes and rollers after each use.

Any suggestions for gun applied product, anybody?

Availability of 'Liquid Flashing' products in the UK

CWatters — Tue, 14 Jan 2020 11:43:08 +0000

Can you give us a link to an American product as an example?

There are a huge range of gun applied Mastics/Sealers/adhesives and combinations available some optimised for specific materials like Wood/Brick, uPVC, lead, bitumen, galvanised steel etc

Have you looked at "frame sealants"...

https://trade.evo-stik.co.uk/product/frame-mastic-sealant

For sealing around external metal or timber doors, window frames, sills and roof lights
Can also be used in low movement joints in brick and concrete structures
Repairs flashings, downpipes and gutters
Highly waterproof and flexible
Lasts up to 10 years
Suitable for exterior use

https://www.screwfix.com/p/no-nonsense-exterior-frame-sealant-white-310ml/21638

One-part, odourless and flexible acrylic sealant for external and internal joints around all types of frames. Solvent-free, weather and water resistant. Easy to apply, bonds to most substrates including wood, concrete and masonry.

Geocel/Dow Corning are probably the premium brands.

http://www.geocel.co.uk/Geocel-Trade-Guide.pdf

Availability of 'Liquid Flashing' products in the UK

willie.macleod — Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:11:36 +0000

Posted By: ealingbadger
I am especially keen to be able to gun the product on because of the convenience of being able to apply it in small amounts here and there as required and to avoid having to clean (or more likely discard) brushes and rollers after each use.

Any suggestions for gun applied product, anybody?

The weatherseal comes in either gun/spray product (which I used) or a trowel on version. I have a suitable gun for applying it, but it is a right faff compared to brushing or rolling as you need to get a suitaable large compressor out and fired up, hoses run and the gun clean up procedure makes it far more trouble than using a cheap brush and throwing it away at the end.

Availability of 'Liquid Flashing' products in the UK

ealingbadger — Tue, 14 Jan 2020 17:41:22 +0000

One example of the type of product that I am talking about is:

http://www.huberwood.com/zipsystem/products/zip-system-liquid-flash

No offence, but a product which claims "...up to 10 years" is not for me in a construction context.

In fact, in general (so far / to date) any and all UK available mastics (especially acrylics) that I have looked at are not, in my estimation, up to the job as they are generally too thick and acrylics crack and shrink like crazy.

I think we might be at slight cross purposes with regard to what I mean by gunning the stuff on. I do not mean by use of a spray gun. I'm talking about a mastic gun - hand operated, or my new favourite toy an electrically driven (18V) mastic gun. I held off buying one of these for years - partly out of a fear of having the mickey taken out of me for using a 'cissy' tool but now I wouldn't be without it and thoroughly recommend them to everyone I meet.

Regarding Dow Corning products - they do make great silicone products and I do make extensive use of (and recommend very highly) Geocel 201 but whilst this is an excellent mastic for sealing timber to masonry it is not suitable for the kind of thing I need to seal the joints in OSB sheathing and there are no other Dow Corning / Geocel products that are AFAIAA, though I am always happy to be corrected of course.

Availability of 'Liquid Flashing' products in the UK

djh — Tue, 14 Jan 2020 18:33:58 +0000

Posted By: ealingbadgerOne example of the type of product that I am talking about is:

http://www.huberwood.com/zipsystem/products/zip-system-liquid-flash

No offence, but a product which claims "...up to 10 years" is not for me in a construction context.

And yet you are happy with a product that is: "Warranted for up to 180 days of extreme weather and UV exposure."?

Both Siga and Pro Clima make suitable tapes for the applications illustrated.

The mastic-type products you're looking for are called MS-polymers in Europe, I believe.

http://zhclg.com/durability-of-building-and-construction-sealants-and-adhesives/brief-history-of-silyl-terminated-polyether-stpe-sealants.htm

Availability of 'Liquid Flashing' products in the UK

CWatters — Tue, 14 Jan 2020 19:23:30 +0000

One example of the type of product that I am talking about is:

http://www.huberwood.com/zipsystem/products/zip-system-liquid-flash

That says its made from STPE (silyl-terminated-polyether). Googling that found mention of..

ARBOMERIC MP 10 or MP 20 (depending on the modulus)..

https://www.arbo.co.uk/products/modified-polymer-sealants/arbomeric-mp20/
https://www.arbo.co.uk/products/modified-polymer-sealants/arbomeric-mp10/

NITOSEAL MS600

http://www.epms-supplies.co.uk/admin/products/documents/Fosroc/Data/Nitoseal%20MS600%20TDS.pdf
https://www.uksealants.co.uk/nitoseal-ms-600-wras-approved-sealant.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA6vXwBRBKEiwAYE7iS6FXcc6BOP-EzaNXCvnhZw69ikMr9BsSrkZlJkMqxETrsoiDZ1LBgBoCGeEQAvD_BwE

Poly Wall Blue Barrier Joint Filler 2200 (Imported from USA) but expensive at Â£26 for 10oz !

https://desertcart.co.uk/products/62255582-poly-wall-blue-barrier-joint-filler-2200-10-1-ounce-tube

Availability of 'Liquid Flashing' products in the UK

CWatters — Tue, 14 Jan 2020 19:42:39 +0000

The mastic-type products you're looking for are called MS-polymers in Europe, I believe.

Toolstation has EB25 which I think is an MS Polymer..

https://www.toolstation.com/eb25-the-ultimate-sealant-adhesive-300ml/p99644?store=U2&utm_source=googleshopping&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=googleshoppingfeed&gclid=CjwKCAiA6vXwBRBKEiwAYE7iS9Gvh0a2SOjuy0z6EbH31Da5lneGZCefecvS9-Un6gkkSkxxiU52pxoCev0QAvD_BwE

Availability of 'Liquid Flashing' products in the UK

Nick Parsons — Wed, 15 Jan 2020 07:31:29 +0000

Pro Clima's 'gun-able' product (specifically aimed at air-tightness tasks) is Orcon F. Pavatex make something which seems to be similar. It'll be called Pava-something, I think, but I cannot recall its name.

Availability of 'Liquid Flashing' products in the UK

ealingbadger — Wed, 15 Jan 2020 11:25:32 +0000

Many thanks for all of your comments - most helpful.

Regarding the 180 day warranty thing -

First, American suppliers always offer much lower guarantees than is common in Europe in an aggressive attempt to limit their liability so I do not read too much into this. Commercial house builders that employ these products are not in such a lucky position however. Were they to deploy a product that failed in under a year they would most certainly be for the high jump big time. Consequently, they would not be deploying these products freely as they do unless they had confidence in them.

Second, the product is specifically not exposed to extreme weather and UV in normal service as it is always protected from both by a subsequent layer of cladding - and possibly (rather likely in fact) a layer of house wrap as well. What the 180 day thing is really saying is that the product is warranted for full exposure to the weather for that period of time during the construction phase. Just as OSB is similarly warranted for 90 days in driving rain and sun whilst you set about getting whatever is going to go on top of it installed.

I am aware of the tapes but thank you anyway. I will be utilising them as the situation dictates but my preference is to avoid them where possible on the exterior - and especially under the Tyvek, battening, cladding, and roof slates. This is because I am dubious of the ability of tapes to be truly reliable in the context of sealing openings, and especially circular openings around pipes and the like, in rough (i.e. OSB) surfaces. I know that these tapes are very high spec (they ought to be for the price that is charged for them) but all of my experience up to now (40+ years) has taught me to be very cautious about the long term durability of the bond between tape and substrate.

Many thanks for the MS-polymers thing - I will look into it. I really should have had the gumption to check the actual material type (silyl-terminated-polyether) and go in search of that so I am grateful for the heads up to the obvious (if only I'd been more attentive).

And many thanks to all for all of the links. I will now get off and research them.