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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
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Heating and cooling: A2A HPs

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  1.  
    These don't seem to be getting much attention on GBF recently. A few threads from several years ago.

    The Daikin Ururu Sarara has an outdoor unit noise level of 46dBA which seems quite a bit quieter than a Mitsubishi Ecodan at 58. Setting DHW aside, any thoughts on these units?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2020
     
    A lot better than direct electric heating which is only 100% efficient these deliver efficiencies of between 300 and 400% 🙂
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2020
     
    Discussed on this forum " Ducted air to air heat pumps".
    I fitted one about a year ago but as you allude it's a technology which appears to bypass many on this forum, why, I don't know. It is very efficient and yes, my ducted system was a bit onerous to fit, but I'm glad I persevered. On a new build or large scale refurbishment I wouldn't hesitate again. With COP in excess of 4.8, why bother with anything else.
  4.  
    We run one in a small shop

    I'd get one again but not sure on the logistics of heating a house with one and controlling of each room etc
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2020 edited
     
    Posted By: WeeBeastieDaikin Ururu Sarara

    One point I noted in its spec is a minimum install height of 2.5 m for the indoor unit, which will rule it out for many UK houses.

    I don't understand how it can fill a room with fresh air. It has two gas pipes, a drain pipe and a humidity pipe so how does the 'fresh air' get through the wall?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2020
     
    It seems it filters and humidifies the air to create a "fresher" feel; perhaps that's what they are touting. If so, It's a bit of loose language with the word "Fresh", conditioned, would be more accurate.
    or,
    Maybe the humidity pipe is dual inlet and outlet.
  7.  
    Any recommended brands/models? Low noise of outdoor and indoor units important to me. Not so much the bells & whistles of bacteria filters etc.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2020
     
    Posted By: owlmanMaybe the humidity pipe is dual inlet and outlet.

    Don't think so, else why the drainage pipe?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeFeb 1st 2020 edited
     
    WeeBeastie; Are you looking at simple one to one; or two or three splits; outdoor to indoor units. Or are you thinking ducted.
  10.  
    Posted By: owlmanWeeBeastie; Are you looking at simple one to one; or two or three splits; outdoor to indoor units. Or are you thinking ducted.


    One-to-one to heat a space approx 30sqm. Or possibly split to two indoor units.
    • CommentAuthorMikC
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2020
     
    I fitted an air source heat pump to heat a well insulated and air tight space of 36sqm . DIY fitted a £600 Daikin unit, about 2kW max output. This is way oversized but it modulates the output quite well it seems, and that's about as small as they come, it's a really good heating system and can do cooling or dehumidification if desired. The recommended ceiling height of the indoor unit is just so people don't hang their head on it I think, mines fitted at 1.7m as the ceilings are only 2.1m.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2020
     
    If its a straightforward wall/ceiling junction hung unit there are loads to choose. For me the first priority would be aesthetics. Some look a bit lumpy and ugly although they are getting better. The better ones generally all have filtration and remote control but maybe start with the fan noise comparison.
    Fitted on an outside wall is easiest but if you have loft space then routing services through the loft is easy and opens up other possible locations. Choose which refrigerant gas carefully, not all run on the most eco-friendly.
    Look at centrally mounted ceiling units too although most ceiling joist spacing isn't conducive to their fitting in a domestic interior, usually about 5/600mm, without some joinery work.
    Stick with the bigger names in the field Daikin, Mitsubishi, Toshiba, Samsung, etc.. Service back up and end of phone help is a consideration. Personally speaking, Daikin didn't want to know me regarding specs. etc. because I wasn't an F gas fitter, so they were ditched early on despite their reputation. In contrast Mitsubishi's and Toshiba's tech guys were first class.
    Regarding compressors; their relative COPs, noise, and controlability, plus I wanted an R32 gas unit, were my first ports of call, I opted for Toshiba in the end and I'm well pleased.
  13.  
    Posted By: MikCI fitted an air source heat pump to heat a well insulated and air tight space of 36sqm . DIY fitted a £600 Daikin unit, about 2kW max output. This is way oversized but it modulates the output quite well it seems, and that's about as small as they come, it's a really good heating system and can do cooling or dehumidification if desired. The recommended ceiling height of the indoor unit is just so people don't hang their head on it I think, mines fitted at 1.7m as the ceilings are only 2.1m.


    Thanks. How is the outdoor noise level?

    I was out running early this frosty morning, very quiet residential area, and passed what must have been a heat pump down the side of a house. Could hear it very clearly humming at around 10 metres away, the sound seemed to be bouncing off neighbouring buildings close by. This is what worries me about any heat pump.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDamonHD
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2020
     
    And yet we unthinkingly put up with cars and motorbikes making a helluva racket when it suits the drivers...

    Rgds

    Damon
    • CommentAuthorMikC
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2020
     
    I'd say the noise is very minimal, when running flat out you can hear the fan if you are outside, but compared to background noise it's negligible.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2020
     
    I'd agree; the better units modulate so there's no one single answer to noise, plus it's very subjective.
    My compressor is between my sunroom back wall and my neighbour's garage sidewall. This year I'm going to experiment with fabricating an exterior grade acoustic baffle, as yet to be designed.
  17.  
    Anyone here successfully installed an acoustic baffle?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeFeb 2nd 2020
     
    In my MVHR yes
    • CommentAuthorGarethC
    • CommentTimeFeb 3rd 2020
     
    Iirc, while the ururu sarara model is Daikin's flagship, they have a more basic and cheaper R32 range without the 'fresh air' bells and whistles but similarly high SCOPs (and v quiet).
  20.  
    I thought the best A2A outdoor units were significantly quieter than the Ecodan but have just checked the latest Ecodan - now 46dBA, same as a good Daikin or Panasonic A2A.

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