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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorXT600
    • CommentTimeMar 7th 2020
     
    Can anyone suggest the best way to do this. A flat with (flying freehold) ..the neighbours are loud and I need to find a fix! Currently, 4" stud wall, rockwall insulation filling cavity, double layer of (standard) plasterboard on both sides. Preferably best to leave existing wall in place (the neighbours don't want disruption) and add to this on my side. I've been looking at the ACOUSTICEL M20AD . Has anyone any experience with these type of products? Any advice gratefully received :-)
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2020
     
    You need to deal with not just the wall but any air paths through it (sockets and switches, pipes etc) and round, under and over it. Additional plasterboard should be sound block and of a different thickness to existing. Concrete would work well instead of rockwool but difficult to do now. The rock wool should be dense batts not roll.
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2020
     
    Acousticel m20AD gives 34db of sound reduction when added to a 100mm partition building regs requires 45db of sound reduction for a new build.

    With all the upheaval I would do it to a higher standard but it will take up more space.

    The best option is to build another timber stud independent of the existing wall and use RW45 acoustic batt in between studs. It probably won't work out any more expensive than Acousticel but it will take up more space.

    Also you would need to deal with the void under the floor as sound will come round the stud otherwise.
    • CommentAuthorXT600
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2020
     
    Thanks for your comments. The wall sits on timber joists so replacing with anything heavy isn't an option. Also, the maximum extra thickness would be 50mm, otherwise I would have to reduce an already slim doorway, and move the stairs! So with this in mind, I need to make the best of that 50mm.
    Nigel, you say that the m20ad gives 34db reduction, what would be the likely reduction when the m20ad is finished with 30mm of plasterboard?
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeMar 8th 2020
     
    This product offers 50db sound reduction
    https://www.noisestopsystems.co.uk/shop/wall-soundproofing/noisestop-acoustic-panel/

    This is a lot denser than the M20AD.

    If you have enough space fix using resilient bars to give a greater separation.

    These boards can be finished without adding plasterboard too.

    You do need to deal with floor void too as noise will flank around this system otherwise.
    • CommentAuthorbhommels
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2020
     
    Second the comment on resilient bars, I have good experience with these even when using standard double plasterboard. The installation details are important and can be found here:
    http://www.soundservice.co.uk/resilientbar.htm
    They are cheap and should work even better when using acoustic batts.
    • CommentAuthorMike1
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2020
     
    As a step up from resilient bars, there are proprietary systems that provide additional performance, such as ReductoClip and IsoMax.
    • CommentAuthorXT600
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2020
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: nigel</cite>This product offers 50db sound reduction
    <a href="https://www.noisestopsystems.co.uk/shop/wall-soundproofing/noisestop-acoustic-panel/" rel="nofollow">https://www.noisestopsystems.co.uk/shop/wall-soundproofing/noisestop-acoustic-panel/</a>

    This is a lot denser than the M20AD.

    If you have enough space fix using resilient bars to give a greater separation.



    </blockquote>


    I'm assuming these bars are screwed into the studs on an existing studwork wall? Therefore leaving an air gap between original wall and new panels. Does this make much difference in practice to just glueing the panels to the existing plasterboard walls? And what happens at an external corner?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2020
     
    Posted By: Mike1As a step up from resilient bars, there are proprietary systems that provide additional performance, such as ReductoClip and IsoMax.

    IsoMax is apparently discontinued. ReductoClip says it is specifically for ceilings rather than walls.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2020
     
    Posted By: XT600I'm assuming these bars are screwed into the studs on an existing studwork wall?
    They can be. See the data sheets referenced.

    Therefore leaving an air gap between original wall and new panels. Does this make much difference in practice to just glueing the panels to the existing plasterboard walls?
    Yes.

    And what happens at an external corner?
    See the data sheets already referenced.
    • CommentAuthorXT600
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2020
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: djh</cite>www.soundservice.co.uk/resilientbar.htm</blockquote>



    I can't find any reference to external corners. In my case, the wall needs to end at an external corner, so using the bars will just leave a gap....
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeMar 9th 2020
     
    Posted By: XT600
    Posted By: djhwww.soundservice.co.uk/resilientbar.htm

    I didn't post that link.

    I can't find any reference to external corners. In my case, the wall needs to end at an external corner, so using the bars will just leave a gap....

    I don't understand your concern. There should always be a gap around every edge of a wall or ceiling installed on resilient bars. So I imagine you mean something different, but I don't know what.
  1.  
    Posted By: djh
    Posted By: XT600
    And what happens at an external corner?
    See the data sheets already referenced.
    Where, exactly? I can't see anything relevant.

    XT600's question is straightforward: s/he has been recommended to use resilient bars to support plasterboard. At an external corner, the cut edges of two plasterboards meet at 90degrees and need to be supported by something strong in the angle behind them. How is this done with resilient bars? A clear detail would help XT600 and others interested in this problem (incl me).
    • CommentAuthorMike1
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2020
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: XT600</cite>what happens at an external corner</blockquote>
    Here's a set of detail drawings: https://www.librasystemsuk.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Internal-Partitions-Res-Bar-one-side.pdf
  2.  
    Thanks Mike that's much more helpful. It shows horizontal resilient bars as usual, but additional vertical resilient bars running up both sides of the corner, to support the cut edges of the plasterboard.
    • CommentAuthorXT600
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2020
     
    Thanks Mike, that's certainly helpful for those with an external corner to deal with.
    My scenario is different though, because my soundproofing will just end on an external corner, rather than wrap around onto the next elevation. This is because it is a staircase, which doesn't allow any space to increase the depth of the wall. The plan is to put the soundproofing on the other side (my neighbour's side) of that wall. That way, we both lose an equal amount of space in our rooms, but get both offending wall elevations covered.
    djh: I s'pose in my case I will just have to leave the resilient bars a little short, and glue in a thin strip of board to cover the corner.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeMar 10th 2020
     
    I'm not sure how much support two thicknesses of acoustic plasterboard would need. And some plywood would probably do instead. Not that I've got anything against extra resilient bars.
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