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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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  1.  
    Hello all, perhaps you can help. I'm an experienced self-build sort and on my final big project. An inground swimming pool with a timber-frame pool-house (outbuilding) over, all the bells and whistles for our retirement - and I've hit a wall! The building is ok (design) - structural engineer checking all. The pool is the problem. Having dug the hole, laid 150mm concrete with 10mm rebar mesh on 2000g DPM, just about to build walls and Building Control Officer requests details of tanking method. Building stops! There is no such thing in the pool-building world. Nobody knows what I'm talking about! I've read all the BR and can't find anything with regards to pools apart from Part L and I comply ok. My BCO can't tell me which part of Regs refers but is insisting on persuing it. What do I do? Does anybody out there know (or know anybody) that's built ICF pools that can advise plse? I've still got the build -- so I don't want to get on the wrong side of him.
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2020
     
    Never done a pool but guess with water very heavy will exert pressure on the concrete which will be a bit porous so I would reckon you would need to seal in some way. Will it be tiled in which case you would render with waterproof render before tiling. Did a quick google and there are cross section diagrams of pool construction and they have tanking included. Shame the BCO not more helpful in suggesting solutions guess I was very lucky with the ones on my build could not have wished for a better BCO.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2020
     
    I don't know much about the subject. My wife would love a pool, but ... I was put off by the likely energy cost. I remember reading and being very impressed by a thread about a heavily insulated pool house that handled the high humidity and condensation - I don't remember whether the thread was here or maybe on the N... forum.

    I don't know much about fighting BCOs either (thank deity of your choice) but I would have thought that they would have to quote chapter and verse if they object to anything you're doing, and you ask them for reasons.

    Equally I'd have thought you wanted to be clear about what made your pool construction waterproof (i.e 'tanking' AIUI).

    So I'm not sure what the problem is?
  2.  
    Concrete to be used for fill will have waterproofer in it. Pool to be lined with vinyl liner - as per 75% of pools in UK - which is by definition waterproof, but he won't have it. The only c/section I've seen is the Beco one, when contacted for their recommended solution, answer was - "your designer's job". It's possible to tank a sub-ground ICF wall with external cladding because there's space around it but this is being built in a close-fit hole and can only be tanked from the inside (if Regs actually require it).

    Thanks for looking..
  3.  
    Hi DJH. yes running cost was a major thinking-point, that's why I went for an ICF solution, with extra 25mm of PIR wrapped on the sides and inside what is basically a huge pile of Quinntherm insulation wrapped in a bit of timber with no windows. Heated by air/heat pump - its about as efficient as I can build it.

    Again, thanks for looking..
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2020 edited
     
    I'd suggest trying to find the thread I mentioned. It was an eye-opener for the issues involved, even to somebody who wasn't that interested.

    As regards the BCO (is he local authority, BTW? :) ) I'd again suggest challenging them for the basis of their concern. A quick search finds https://www.xlpools.com/outdoor-swimming-pool-building-regulations/ and that says: "Any outdoor pool that has a permanent structure over it will become an indoor pool, but as long as the structure is unheated and unventilated it will not have to comply with building regulations.

    "The regulations which apply to indoor pools are regarding the insulation of the floor and walls of the swimming pool, and are in part concerned with energy conservation and reducing or slowing the loss of heat from the pool into the ground."

    There's nothing there about tanking. You've told him about the waterproof concrete and the liner, so what more is he expecting? If he doesn't answer, ask his boss.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJun 27th 2020
     
    Is he worried about ground water water logging the insulation? Perhaps ask the supplier to confirm that the insulation is closed cell and does not need external tanking to preserve its insulating properties.
    • CommentAuthorgyrogear
    • CommentTime7 days ago
     
    this might help ?

    https://www.sikawaterproofing.co.uk/products-systems/sikalastic-liquid-applied-membrane-system/

    gg
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTime7 days ago
     
    But check that can that be painted onto insulation?
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTime7 days ago
     
    Bit of googling found an ICF spa and concrete pool company with examples. Looks like they use internal tanking on ICF and external tanking on solid concrete pools..

    https://poolbuild.co.uk/category/technical/

    HYDROTHERAPY SPA RENDERED, EAST SUSSEX
    PUBLISHED AT 02/08/2013 IN CATEGORY COMMERCIAL, INDOOR, OVERFLOW/DECK LEVEL, SPA BATH, SPECIALITY, TECHNICAL TAGS: CONSTRUCTION, DECK LEVEL, ENERGY EFFICIENT, ICF, INSULATED, NEW BUILD, QUAD LOCK, WATER SAVING
    A hydro-therapy massage bench ready for tiling
    The spa requires rendering prior to tanking
    Using specialist products, which can be found on our Pool Construction Products, the Quad-Lock shell is rendered prior to tanking. The bench in the middle is an air massage bed, which will be both sensory and relaxing for its users at this specialist school for children with disabilities.

    and

    MORETON IN MARSH: INSULATION AND TANKING THE CONCRETE BASE
    PUBLISHED AT 01/07/2013 IN CATEGORY DOMESTIC, SWIMMING POOL, TECHNICAL TAGS: SLAB INSULATED, SLAB TANKING
    Insulation and Tanking of Concrete Base
    The concrete slab is insulated and has an external tanking membrane applied. The insulation will greatly reduce heat loss, and the tanking membrane will stop moisture from being absorbed into the concrete. This is standard protocol with sub ground level construction.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTime7 days ago
     
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTime7 days ago edited
     
    http://www.insulatedpool.co.uk/index.php/about/what-is-a-quadlock-insulated-pool/


    What is Quad-Lock Insulated Pool?

    Quad-Lock Pool is the only one-stop shop for energy efficient swimming pool construction projects, we offer:

    Insulating Concrete Form (ICF) pool shell, insulated on both internal and external faces of all walls

    Fully insulated pool floor

    Internal reinforced waterproof tanking system
    snip
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTime7 days ago
     
    I think it will leak
  4.  
    Ok guys, had to take the day off due family bus. so catching up all in one go.

    I see your comments/links and will chase them all up and can only thank you all for your help.

    If I get stuck again, I know a gang of guys that can sort things out - Ta.
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