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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2020
     
    I'm getting mixed messages from suppliers etc. that they will only work if both devices are on the same circuit, by that I take to mean on the same ring. Others say they will work throughout the whole house i.e. presumably via the CU to all circuits.
    Are they constantly selecting pathways through the wiring using all three L. N. and E? If so, are some better at that than others?
    Does anyone have personal experience and any particular brand recommendations.
    Obviously I can't get an ethernet cable between the two devices, before someone comments, although I know it's the best solution.
    • CommentAuthorGamberoni
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2020
     
    I've just bought a pair of TP-Link adapters. The second unit was on the same floor as the router, I've just unplugged it and moved it to the third floor of the house where it's working perfectly. I'm pretty sure the power sockets are on different rings - but I'd have to start messing about with the power to see if they are.

    The reviews I've seen in the past have been based around how up-to-date the wiring is, the newer the wiring the more likely they are to work. I got mine because we bought some for my partners house and I didn't check where the power outlets were - hers were in the skirting board and the network cable plugs in to the bottom of the unit! Looking at the one I've just plugged in, it's flush to the skirting board and the unit slightly obscures the switch on the power socket. Happy to let you know which model and to answer any other questions.
    • CommentAuthorArtiglio
    • CommentTimeSep 21st 2020
     
    My mum has them in her house, BT branded, one is most definitely on a seperate circuit that runs off of a secondary consumer unit ( hope that makes sense). Performance is ok but much of the problem is the very poor “rural” broadband that bt offer. However we’re currently trying out a sim card home hub via o2 and its offering speeds 20x faster than the landline. Though early days so not sure how consistent it’ll be.
    I also use a system in my house , this runs on seperate circuits on same cosumer unit ( upstairs and downstairs ring) had it years, fine for what i use it for (ps3 and tv). TPlink is the brand.
  1.  
    Up until a couple of years ago I had used Devolo dLAN adapters for more than ten years in two different houses. They were on different circuits and I never had a problem.
    • CommentAuthorSteveZ
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2020
     
    Hi Owlman - we have three different manufacturers adapters in our place and they all work reliably, no clashes. One is made by Tenda, another by Zylex and the one for the PV system, which just says 'powerline adapter'. All easy to set up, so just pick one at the price you like.
    Check how they fit into the socket - I have a set of adapters which I could not fit where they needed to go, as mentioned above by Gamberoni.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2020
     
    Thanks fellas for your replies. I had noticed that the Ethernet port/s were not always conducive to home socket locations. This is what prompted my question regarding, how do they work. I had heard that they only work when plugged into a wall socket, as opposed to an extension lead which I find hard to believe, if that lead is properly earthed.
    Maybe manufacturers are just playing safe in recommending such, as their system uses the earth cable, and someone is bound to have a non-earthed lead.
    • CommentAuthorCliff Pope
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2020
     
    I've read that they don't work with extension leads, or even with adaptors, but in my experience neither is true. It might perhaps be true that performance is reduced - I haven't actually compared speeds in different locations.

    They do work on different rings, but again perhaps at reduced speed.

    We've a cottage annexe which is connected through an allocated outlet from the house consumer board, but I put a meter at the cottage end to monitor useage when our daughter was living there. They don't work through a meter, or at least not the old black kind with a rotating disk.
    We get internet to the cottage by a combination of a pair of adaptors to a window facing the cottage, then an external-grade ethernet cable.
    They are pretty versatile, 3 pairs at once cause no problems, and are more reliable than wi-fi in an old house with thick stone walls.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2020
     
    Thanks Cliff, I'm going to give them a go, and with an extension lead, it's worth a try.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2020
     
    I have a tx next to my CU and the rx works on all circuits including one to an outbuilding 60m away. Ive also tried the rx in an extension lead plugged into a socket in the outbuilding and it worked OK.
    • CommentAuthorCliff Pope
    • CommentTimeSep 23rd 2020
     
    I think not all adaptors are the same, and some very cheap ones are fussier about how "clear" an electrical path they will take. The first pair we tried would not work on all circuits, and was picky about working through extension leads, adaptors, power surge preventers, etc.
    A better quality pair specified it had a longer range and would work through these kind of obstacles. But still only within one individual electricity connection - it wouldn't work to a separate house, surely, and my experience suggests it is the supply meter that blocks it.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2020 edited
     
    The plot thickens, I never gave it a thought before, but two of the items I'd ben looking at and considered for router connection have a 48V DC power connection. I'm guessing this complicates the issue as many low voltage supplies are not earthed which would render signal pathways through the E cable useless. Or an I missing something; any ideas?
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2020
     
    48VDC is around abouts PoE voltages - are these networking devices you're looking at intended to draw power from the ethernet cable?
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2020
     
    @CliffPope or that your neighbours use different phases.. In a row of houses on a 3 phase main in the street you may have to go 3 doors down/up to find a neighbour on the same cable as you.. I always wondered if they worked in different houses
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2020 edited
     
    Posted By: cjard48VDC is around abouts PoE voltages - are these networking devices you're looking at intended to draw power from the ethernet cable?


    Yes Caius, it is POE device but on questioning a supplier, he assures me they work and are used all the time.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeOct 6th 2020
     
    Posted By: owlmanThe plot thickens, I never gave it a thought before, but two of the items I'd ben looking at and considered for router connection have a 48V DC power connection.
    Can you link to them? As in post an HTTP(S) link here to a page about them?
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeOct 7th 2020
     
    For Ed, They are NVRs for CCTV, and on further investigation they all seem to be the same. I guess it simplifies manufacturing if you make a global 48 VDC model and then just add a plug in transformer with suitable jack plug lead, as required for each country, rather than putting transformers in the box itself.
    Apparently the powerline adapters still work though, at least the modern ones.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2020
     
    The impedance of the mains supply is pretty low at 50Hz. eg You can take 50A at 50Hz without the voltage dropping much right.

    The impedance at the high frequencies used for Powerline is much higher, so they don't have to draw much current in order to modulate the supply voltage and send signals down the mains.

    The impedance near the CU is likely to be lower than somewhere out on a ring so its possible that a CU can act a bit like a short circuit to the Powerline signals. That's essentially why they say its better for tx and rx to be on the same ring - but experiment as I've not had an issue in my house with them on different rings.

    A coil of wire (as you might get with an extension lead) can cause signals to be coupled from one turn to another. I guess the best way to describe this is like the ghosting you sometimes got on an old analogue TV when a plane flew overhead. The experiment I did was with an extension lead above was with it uncoiled.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2020 edited
     
    For Ed, They are NVRs for CCTV, and on further investigation they all seem to be the same. I guess it simplifies manufacturing if you make a global 48 VDC model and then just add a plug in transformer with suitable jack plug lead, as required for each country, rather than putting transformers in the box itself.
    Apparently the powerline adapters still work though, at least the modern ones.


    My guess is they supply a Powerline plug that provides POE up an ethernet cable to the NVR. Same ethernet cable sends network signals back to the plug. No separate mains adaptor required.

    If Powerline isn't being used the NVR can be powered by a remote hub over wired ethernet.

    If there is also a 48V DC jack socket that will be for when neither Powerlink or POE is being used.
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    As far as I know, powerline works as long as the devices are all on the same phase of the 3 phase supply. So yes, if your neighbour is on the same phase, the adapter would work. Stories of child alarms working in neighbours' houses when plugged in.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    As cjard noted though, houses on an estate are split among the three phases, so sometimes it won't be your next door neighbour on the same phase but one a bit further away.
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