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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2020 edited
     
    I need to get a metal roof on my house fairly promptly (unless I want a change of plan to a mushroom farm). My planning permission requires black or dark charcoal colour. Having been messed around by local suppliers for a month or two and looking at pages like this https://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/browse/roof-sheets/metal-roof-sheets/cladco-13-3-profile-metal-roof-sheets.html it seems such paint is unobtainium at the moment.

    Am I mad to think about getting a different colour then painting it black? If that's not totally silly, what would be easiest to paint over, PVC, polyester or just plain galvanized? I think galvanized would need special primer first?
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2020 edited
     
    Have you looked at Onduline, not metal though but looks similar.

    https://www.roofingdirect.co.uk/onduline-roofing-sheets-pp-green.html
    • CommentAuthorLF
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2020
     
  1.  
    Posted By: Ed DaviesI need to get a metal roof on my house fairly promptly (unless I want a change of plan to a mushroom farm). My planning permission requires black or dark charcoal colour. Having been messed around by local suppliers for a month or two and looking at pages like this https://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/browse/roof-sheets/metal-roof-sheets/cladco-metal-roof-sheets.html it seems such paint is unobtainium at the moment.

    Am I mad to think about getting a different colour then painting it black? If that's not totally silly, what would be easiest to paint over, PVC, polyester or just plain galvanized? I think galvanized would need special primer first?

    Painting over IMO is a bad idea, no guarantee on the eventual paint durability and probably voids the guarantee on the roofing sheets - or at least gives them a 'get out of jail free' card

    The web site you quote seems to have a couple of options that would fit the bill and they deliver. - Are you saying that they can't deliver suitable products?
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2020 edited
     
    Posted By: nigelHave you looked at Onduline, not metal though but looks similar.
    I've heard mixed reports about Onduline. None were consistent with it lasting very long in an exposed location. Pity, really, as it would be easy to fit.

    Posted By: LFSome metal options on Amazon - surprised to find - may spark an idea.
    Interesting, hadn't thought of them.

    The second of those is West Midlands only. The first is very thin (0.25 mm) vs 0.5 or 0.7 for the profile steel so obviously intended to be nailed direct to a backing board. That does spark some ideas, though…

    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryThe web site you quote seems to have a couple of options that would fit the bill and they deliver. - Are you saying that they can't deliver suitable products?
    For the black and anthracite they say popular, not in stock, can't order, sign up for an email when they're in. Entirely consistent with the local supplier accepting my order then not even being able to give me a delivery date 7 weeks later so I cancelled.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2020
     
    Agree with what PiH says about painting. Mad idea - could you put tarps over the top for now until the roofing comes into stock? They should last fairly well provided they're supported everywhere and tied down in a good number of places.
  2.  
    Posted By: Ed Davies
    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryThe web site you quote seems to have a couple of options that would fit the bill and they deliver. - Are you saying that they can't deliver suitable products?
    For the black and anthracite they say popular, not in stock, can't order, sign up for an email when they're in. Entirely consistent with the local supplier accepting my order then not even being able to give me a delivery date 7 weeks later so I cancelled.

    Do you have to have the cladco profile or would another (available) steel profile be acceptable?

    What about bitumen roofing sheets, lifespan 10years+ depending upon exposure and sun. or would PP be an issue.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2020
     
    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryDo you have to have the cladco profile or would another (available) steel profile be acceptable?
    Oops, I actually want corrugated (“round” / “sinusoidal”) - link in my original post corrected.

    The main reason for wanting that is that it makes pitching the sheets to get a sensible edge next to the windows much easier.
    • CommentAuthorLF
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2020
     
    Best to get sheets just the right size to minimise cuts.
    I did a shed for my father-in-law with some galv corrugated sheets over the summer, they were from a scrap yard so too long. Managed to set angle grinder shroud set up to run down a clamped on straight edge and get a nice clean cut. But you are spoiling the protective layers ...
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2020
     
    Posted By: LFBest to get sheets just the right size to minimise cuts.
    Absolutely. I'm hoping to completely eliminate cuts at the cost of a bit more overlapping. In theory galvanizing should protect cut edges, scratches and so on when all of the exposed metal is very close to the coating but best to try to avoid relying on that.
    • CommentAuthordereke
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2020
     
    When I was looking at roofing options for my office I was surprised that there is no one in the UK that sells powder coated steel roofing, all you get is that horrible plastic stuff. Powder coating is really common back in NZ and far better quality than plastic coated steel.

    Anyway point is if you can get some plain steel sheets and then have them powder coated maybe that is an option?
    • CommentAuthorLF
    • CommentTimeDec 17th 2020
     
    Powder coating seems like a good shout if somewhere is set up to do big sheets.

    This lot seem to do coloured fibre cement corrugated. Looks good stuff.Anthracite.
    Might not be the look you are after.

    https://www.roofingsheetsbyrhino.com/fibre-cement/
    • CommentAuthorBeau
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2020
     
    All our old barns corrugated gets a coat of black bitumen from time to time. Not tried it on the new painted sheets though
    • CommentAuthorIan1961
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2020 edited
     
    have you considered metal roofing tiles eg https://www.metrotile.co.uk/ or are you set on having profiled metal sheet material?

    The main advantages of the metal tiles such as the ones from Metro Tile is (1) a better response to thermal expansion over the roof as a whole,(2) no exposed metal on the cut ends so greater paint longevity, and (3) the thicker paint and grit finish usually leads to better acoustic properties (less drumming noise).
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2020 edited
     
    Posted By: Ian1961have you considered metal roofing tiles

    I think the question is what he's got planning permission for.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2020
     
    Indeed. Planning permission application specified “profile steel” with some sample colour. The actual permission document says: “The roof of the house shall be finished in a dark grey/charcoal matt colour”. I don't suppose they'd be too fussed so long as it's dark/very-dark grey.

    An additional consideration is that I want to drink the water off the roof (after a bit of sprucing up) which puts my off anything with too rough a surface which might let various sorts of much cling to the roof too well.

    My plan for the moment is to put sarking boards vertically down the roof, over the existing battens, to keep the bulk of the rain off and particularly give protection from the wind driving water in, then consider what to put on top of that more calmly.
    • CommentAuthordereke
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2020
     
    Posted By: Ed DaviesAn additional consideration is that I want to drink the water off the roof (after a bit of sprucing up) which puts my off anything with too rough a surface which might let various sorts of much cling to the roof too well.


    You might be surprised how good your immune system can get once you get used to it. I grew up on water off one of those metal tiled roofs with no filtration. Never got sick when we went to countries with poor water supplies.. probably because ours was worse!!

    Don't try this at home folks.
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2020
     
    It's possible to get your preferred profile in anodized aluminium too, as well as galv. and PVDF coating also other Colorcoat coatings.
    For supply of sheet roofing it may also be useful to contact firms like Ward building components/ Ward insulated panels ( I think they are part of the Kingspan group ). They produce Industrial Portal frame buildings, all components in house, from their factory in Sherburn near Scarborough I believe. You may be able to sweet talk them into the supply of some roofing sheets. If they are for industrial buildings you may even get continuous sheets i.e. no joins.
  3.  
    Posted By: Ed DaviesIndeed. Planning permission application specified “profile steel” with some sample colour. The actual permission document says: “The roof of the house shall be finished in a dark grey/charcoal matt colour”. I don't suppose they'd be too fussed so long as it's dark/very-dark grey.

    An additional consideration is that I want to drink the water off the roof (after a bit of sprucing up) which puts my off anything with too rough a surface which might let various sorts of much cling to the roof too well.

    My plan for the moment is to put sarking boards vertically down the roof, over the existing battens, to keep the bulk of the rain off and particularly give protection from the wind driving water in, then consider what to put on top of that more calmly.

    You can get profiled steel that look like tiles (if you aren't too close) in various colours. - might be an option. e.g.
    https://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/product/corotile-lightweight-metal-roofing-system-charcoal.html

    Unless you are planning to leave the vertical sarking boards in place then 6mm or 8mm OSB would be quicker and probably cheaper. If you over lap the bottom on to the top of the lower board then you only have rain issues at the sides of the sheets.

    BTW I have recently taken off metal roofing sheets (replaced with more insulation additional rafters and tiles) and found that after about 15 years under the tin sheets the roofing felt had disintegrated to the point of being useless. The roofing sheets were dark grey and I can only assume that the felt got v. hot under the tin roof and could not cope with the heat. I presume that it may get hotter under a dark tin roof than tiles ?? anyone? Perhaps something about which to be aware.

    As a thought about 'stuff' adhering to the roof - anything falling on a smooth roof is going straight in to the collecting tank anyway, something that sticks to the roof and then goes into the tank will have had some time to be bleached by the sun - I'm not sure which would be worse.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeDec 18th 2020
     
    Posted By: Ed DaviesMy plan for the moment is to put sarking boards vertically down the roof, over the existing battens, to keep the bulk of the rain off and particularly give protection from the wind driving water in, then consider what to put on top of that more calmly.

    Tarps to be thrown away (recycled afterwards) will be cheaper I expect :bigsmile:

    Posted By: derekeYou might be surprised how good your immune system can get once you get used to it.

    Indeed. That's why I don't worry too much about legionella (except when on holiday :confused:) )

    +1 for what PiH said
  4.  
    Posted By: derekeYou might be surprised how good your immune system can get once you get used to it. I grew up on water off one of those metal tiled roofs with no filtration. Never got sick when we went to countries with poor water supplies.. probably because ours was worse!!

    Don't try this at home folks.


    We regularly had to remove small drowned animals from our supply, but in Scotland it has all tightened up with "The Water Intended for Human Consumption (Private Supplies) (Scotland) Regulations 2017". The council have sweeping power to force you to make your supply meet EU standards, criminal prosecution if you don't comply when instructed.

    Think they were concerned about you getting your friends round for a drink, whose immune systems might not be so highly trained! And you can't sell or let a house that doesn't comply, so mortgage companies are interested too.

    Ed: have you tried whoever builds agricultural sheds in your area, they might be able to source roof sheets or even hold stock. Also they have the plant to lift and install the sheets, heavy to do by hand especially if it's blowy.

    You know how often there is a windless day where you are, and how long a tarp would stay on for....
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2020
     
    Posted By: WillInAberdeenEd: have you tried whoever builds agricultural sheds in your area, they might be able to source roof sheets or even hold stock. Also they have the plant to lift and install the sheets, heavy to do by hand especially if it's blowy.
    Yes, first place I went. Restricted working practices/people furloughed/long backlog - didn't want to even quote. It's also why I'm getting increasingly interested in the idea of the smaller metal “tiles” of various sorts.

    At last, somebody who realises it's windy sometimes ;-) Here are the wind speeds at Wick Airport while I was out today. m/s so double the numbers to get knots then add a bit for mph. Not the calmest day by any means but less windy than most.

    {"timestamp": "2020-12-19T11:50:00.00Z", "value": 5.1}
    {"timestamp": "2020-12-19T12:20:00.00Z", "value": 6.7}
    {"timestamp": "2020-12-19T12:50:00.00Z", "value": 6.2}
    {"timestamp": "2020-12-19T13:20:00.00Z", "value": 5.1}
    {"timestamp": "2020-12-19T13:50:00.00Z", "value": 4.6}
    {"timestamp": "2020-12-19T14:20:00.00Z", "value": 5.1}
    {"timestamp": "2020-12-19T14:50:00.00Z", "value": 3.6}
    {"timestamp": "2020-12-19T15:20:00.00Z", "value": 4.6}
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeDec 19th 2020
     
    Posted By: derekeYou might be surprised how good your immune system can get once you get used to it.
    Environmental Health got a bit involved in my building warrant application. They were quite concerned at the idea that I might be preparing food for other people (e..g, running a B&B) but when i made it clear I wouldn't they became quite a bit more relaxed and by the end they were quite interested to see the results.

    It helped when I said my brother in law ran a land-fill which had its own lab facilities to test their water out flow (it goes through an RO filter on the way) and I could probably get mine checked there. Unfortunately, said BiL has since sold that business and retired.
    • CommentAuthorSimonD
    • CommentTimeDec 24th 2020
     
    Posted By: Ed DaviesI need to get a metal roof on my house fairly promptly (unless I want a change of plan to a mushroom farm). My planning permission requires black or dark charcoal colour. Having been messed around by local suppliers for a month or two and looking at pages like thishttps://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/browse/roof-sheets/metal-roof-sheets/cladco-13-3-profile-metal-roof-sheets.html" rel="nofollow" >https://www.roofingsuperstore.co.uk/browse/roof-sheets/metal-roof-sheets/cladco-13-3-profile-metal-roof-sheets.htmlit seems such paint is unobtainium at the moment.

    Am I mad to think about getting a different colour then painting it black? If that's not totally silly, what would be easiest to paint over, PVC, polyester or just plain galvanized? I think galvanized would need special primer first?


    Metal roof painting is actually a fairly common thing to do in Scandinavia but more as maintenance for steel roofs. It would be a bit of a pain, but the paints do exist here. Worth taking a look at the following for example for painting new galvanised steel: https://www.promain.co.uk/roof-paints-primers-cleaners/metal-roofs-cladding-paint/teknos-kirjo-aqua-paint.html

    Or call the technical people at promain. I've always found them first class in terms of technical advice and service. I used them recently for painting a new steel bridge.
    • CommentAuthorSimonD
    • CommentTimeDec 24th 2020
     
    Posted By: Ed DaviesMy plan for the moment is to put sarking boards vertically down the roof, over the existing battens, to keep the bulk of the rain off and particularly give protection from the wind driving water in, then consider what to put on top of that more calmly.


    If you were to install sarking boards, you might as well opt for a fully supported standing seam roof material. It is more expensive than the corrugated stuff, but I'm almost certain you'd be able to source a dark grey as anthracite is currently the most popular colour in the uk for this type of roof. There are a couple of suppliers I know who are worth speaking to, one of which provides profiles that clip together and all the flashings and clips pre folded making installation much simpler.

    The supplier for the clip together option is: https://www.metalsolutions.uk.com/home.htm. Otherwise try https://themetalroofcompany.co.uk/ who I recently used for my metal roof and they were incredibly helpful.

    I think if you made a call to both companies to talk it through you'd find them helpful.

    Just another option for you perhaps worth exploring.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeDec 24th 2020
     
    Thanks SimonD, that looks interestingly specific and a bit cheaper per m² than the Bedec barn paint [¹] I was looking at. For the moment I'm covering the roof with tarps to try to not get panicked into anything but that's definitely an option if the black roofing continues to be in short supply.

    [Âą] https://www.toolstation.com/bedec-barn-paint/p90433?searchstr=bedec%20barn%20paint%20matt%20bl
    • CommentAuthorMike1
    • CommentTimeDec 24th 2020
     
    Posted By: owlmanIt's possible to get your preferred profile in anodized aluminium too
    Subject to affordability, black anodized aluminium is also what I'd choose for long-term durability.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeDec 24th 2020
     
    I know dark-coloured roofs are traditional but supposedly light-coloured ones are better for the planet. Just saying. :bigsmile:
  5.  
    Posted By: djhI know dark-coloured roofs are traditional but supposedly light-coloured ones are better for the planet. Just saying.


    Tell that to the planners

    Posted By: Ed DaviesMy planning permission requires black or dark charcoal colour.


    I recently changed a dark tin roof for tiles and I found that the felt under the tin had been destroyed, mostly the reinforcing mesh remained the rest was nonexistent for about 30% of the area and the rest fell apart on removal. I don't know if it gets hotter under a tin roof - and our summers can be quite hot here so maybe worth a few questions to the suppliers
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeDec 24th 2020 edited
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: Ed Davies</cite>I think galvanized would need special primer first?</blockquote>

    I have tried to paint galvanised metal before. It can be a bit like trying to pain a candle with water colours. Loads of fish eye. I tried cleaning it with everything I could think of including petrol. Think in the end I used a Hammerite primer but as I recall even that didn't take that well.


    Try here?

    https://www.steelroofsheets.co.uk/products/321000-box-profile-steel-cladding/
   
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