Green Building Forum - Guardian item on wood burning stoves Wed, 09 Sep 2026 17:46:31 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=286499#Comment_286499 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=286499#Comment_286499 Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:30:39 +0000 WillInAberdeen
The Scottish government hasn't yet adopted any restrictions on dryness of wood fuel afaics, but the EcoDesign standard derives from adopted EU law, so it will apply here.]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=286500#Comment_286500 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=286500#Comment_286500 Mon, 18 Jan 2021 12:33:31 +0000 Peter_in_Hungary Posted By: djhLegislation can help sometimes but not everywhere, short of an outright ban.
Existing legislation is not enforced properly (lack of resources and the will to enforce. e.g at http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=9305&page=56#Item_7 ) so IMO proper enforcement of existing regs would help a lot]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=286506#Comment_286506 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=286506#Comment_286506 Mon, 18 Jan 2021 14:37:34 +0000 Jonti
Peter in Hungary has hit the main issue which needs solving in that governments are great at legislating but woeful at enforcing. The single biggest way in which to reduce emissions and improve air quality is through building houses that are energy efficient.]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=286561#Comment_286561 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=286561#Comment_286561 Tue, 19 Jan 2021 15:05:29 +0000 owlman Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=286800#Comment_286800 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=286800#Comment_286800 Mon, 25 Jan 2021 22:32:41 +0000 ListysDad

As far as I recall, it 'recommends' burning wood that's seasoned to a water content of 20% or less. They even talked of creating some kind of std / mark to daub the correct stuff with (one also suspect s a price hike for such a luxury) along with marketing to ensure Joe Pubic can understand what is appropriate.]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=286806#Comment_286806 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=286806#Comment_286806 Tue, 26 Jan 2021 07:02:37 +0000 jms452 Posted By: ListysDadIf you read the original report, it relates specifically to 'wet' wood being burned

Do you have a reference for this statement?

In paragraph 5 the guardian article says:
'... people in the study used only dry, seasoned wood.'

https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2020/dec/18/wood-burners-triple-harmful-indoor-air-pollution-study-finds]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287472#Comment_287472 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287472#Comment_287472 Tue, 16 Feb 2021 13:11:28 +0000 bhommels https://www.gov.uk/government/statistics/emissions-of-air-pollutants/emissions-of-air-pollutants-in-the-uk-1970-to-2018-summary

My summary of the summary for particulate matter is that
1) man-made UK emissions make up about half of the total for PM2.5, and
2) UK emissions across all sectors are on a downward trend except for domestic solid fuel burning which is now the largest fraction, by far for PM2.5 in particular.]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287473#Comment_287473 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287473#Comment_287473 Tue, 16 Feb 2021 14:17:47 +0000 WillInAberdeen
But as we discussed further up the thread, most PM2.5s floating around in the air of most of the UK are not actually due to those primary manmade emmissions from the UK, such as woodburning, which are covered by that report.

Mostly they are
-natural (seasalt, desert dust, volcanoes, forest fires etc)
- manmade outside the UK (industrial and agricultural emmissions from Europe that drift over SE England)
- photochemical (NOx and Ammonia emmissions that react in sunlight to make PMs)

(Edit to add: I see this is completely lost on the Guardian environment reporters)


This report shows actual air quality measurements including all the above sources. Good news that:
"All [43 zones in the UK] met both limit values for annual mean concentration of PM2.5 particulate
matter: the Stage 1 limit value, which came into force on 1st January 2015, and the
indicative Stage 2 limit value which must be met by 2020.
https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/library/annualreport/viewonline?year=2019_issue_1#report_pdf

Graphs show that pm2.5 levels are improving in all the urban areas that are reported, and all are safely within the WHO health limit.

Overall I think that air quality in the UK is in a pretty good state, which is a good news story so doesn't get reported much in the press. However people tend to talk about air quality as a distraction from other environmental issues, such as global warming and habitat loss, which need a lot more effort.]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287492#Comment_287492 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287492#Comment_287492 Wed, 17 Feb 2021 08:32:50 +0000 fostertom https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2021/feb/16/home-wood-burning-biggest-cause-particle-pollution-fires

"Wood burners also triple the level of harmful pollution particles inside homes and should be sold with a health warning, scientists warned in December"]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287493#Comment_287493 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287493#Comment_287493 Wed, 17 Feb 2021 09:19:59 +0000 RobL
Indoor 0-2
Indoor making nicely browned toast 0-2
Wood burner gets a firing for science 0-2 indoor (dunno outdoor though)
Indoor making slightly blackened toast, just at the edges (not as bad as when you scrape the black off) 50
Indoor frying pan, oil, stirring continuously, just softening onions 10
Indoor frying eggy bread a lot, extractor fan on, 100-200
Quiet (1 car per 20 seconds) road in Cambridge 5
Bus/truck passing on the other side of the road 10
Active roadworks (cutting tool, diesel digger) 15

It seems that anything that gets burned or looks blackened or smells a bit burnt makes the numbers shoot up. Frying with enough oil reduces the little blackened bits and keeps the numbers much lower. After the eggy toast experience, it took an hour to get down to normal background levels - even though we have MVHR.]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287494#Comment_287494 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287494#Comment_287494 Wed, 17 Feb 2021 09:24:54 +0000 Dominic Cooney Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287495#Comment_287495 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287495#Comment_287495 Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:23:19 +0000 fostertom
Just wish we could do simple tests on air permeability of OSB, vapour permeability of EPS etc - just as it's easy to try sucking air through a material, membrane etc, using the very strong vacuum that your mouth can create, and which is easily calibrated by the height of water column it can suck up a 'drinking straw' tube.]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287497#Comment_287497 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287497#Comment_287497 Wed, 17 Feb 2021 10:51:46 +0000 philedge Posted By: Dominic CooneySeems like eggy bread should have the health warning!

Need to keep this discovery under wraps, or we'll be looking at an outright ban on the retail sale of damp eggs and bread in a fews years time]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287501#Comment_287501 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287501#Comment_287501 Wed, 17 Feb 2021 12:36:13 +0000 WillInAberdeen For context the WHO safe health limit is a daily average of 25ug/m3 and an annual average of 10ug/m3. So you can fry eggy bread continuously for a maximum of 3-6 hours a day before you should worry about your health...! But you can burn your woodburner continuously.


Tom, that was the Graun article I meant when I said " as we discussed further up the thread, most PM2.5s floating around in the air of most of the UK are not actually due to primary manmade emmissions from the UK, such as woodburning....I see this is completely lost on the Guardian environment reporters”

However their real agenda may have slipped out a little! ”half of those burning [wood] were affluent”]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287504#Comment_287504 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287504#Comment_287504 Wed, 17 Feb 2021 12:58:38 +0000 LF what was the baseline outside ?
Is it gas or electric hob ?]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287506#Comment_287506 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287506#Comment_287506 Wed, 17 Feb 2021 13:21:29 +0000 bhommels Posted By: WillInAberdeen
Tom, that was the Graun article I meant when I said " as we discussed further up the thread, most PM2.5s floating around in the air of most of the UK are not actually due to primary manmade emmissions from the UK, such as woodburning....I see this is completely lost on the Guardian environment reporters”
From the report:
13% sea spray.
about a third brought in from EU (and you can safely assume the UK "exports" a fair bit as well)
Half of the total is man-made in the UK. The guardian article is roughly correct.
Because all other sectors make serious efforts to reduce PM2.5, woodburners now are the single largest contributor, easily larger than the sea spray contribution.
Of course I agree that habitat destruction etc need attention, but that is not to say we should not make an effort to reduce PM2.5 from burning wood. The more research is done on the subject, the more it turns out that PM2.5 and smaller are really harmful. In that light, I can imagine sea spray having far less nasty effects than the PM2.5 from wood burning.]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287507#Comment_287507 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287507#Comment_287507 Wed, 17 Feb 2021 13:25:01 +0000 WillInAberdeen
Edit: the interesting report Bhommels linked, links through to another interesting report https://uk-air.defra.gov.uk/assets/documents/reports/cat11/1508060903_DEF-PB14161_Mitigation_of_UK_PM25.pdf

Giving sources of PM2.5:
- 19% primary UK emissions (of which woodburning is bit less than half, per the Graun, so about 8%, and half of that from "affluent" people)
- 30% from UK NOx, ammonia, VOC,
- 21% non-UK
-15% natural dust, salt

Further edit to say: totally agree that serious effort needed to reduce pollution wherever practical, the English ban on under-seasoned firewood will be a good step. And that it's an international problem so we should contribute to solving it with neighbours, the EcoDesign regulations will be EU wide. Together I read somewhere they reduce emissions by 80%. I do think it's unhelpful to focus blame on "somebody else" - all those "affluent" people with their woodburners - when other sources such as NOx and agricultural ammonia are more significant, and when air quality is already pretty good.]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287509#Comment_287509 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287509#Comment_287509 Wed, 17 Feb 2021 14:21:13 +0000 RobL Outdoors in leafy Cambridge suburbs the meter just now claims 0-2ug/m^3 pm2.5
It can clearly detect a match being lit, and it doesn't like candles (Mrs RobL not happy about that)

This is what I have by the way (temp & RH on it are useless due to selfheating, I did say it was a bit cheap):
https://www.banggood.com/PM2_5-Air-Quality-Monitor-Digital-Gas-Analyzer-Laser-Duty-Sensor-Air-Detector-Home-LED-Display-Temp-And-Humidity-Test-Equipment-p-1593795.html?utm_design=18&utm_email=1611019523_2324&utm_source=emarsys&utm_medium=Shipoutinform190813&utm_campaign=trigger-logistics&utm_content=leander&sc_src=email_2671705&sc_eh=980627074301d15b1&sc_llid=27252578&sc_lid=104858042&sc_uid=sEFTM2SqmW&cur_warehouse=CN]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287514#Comment_287514 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=287514#Comment_287514 Wed, 17 Feb 2021 20:04:26 +0000 bxman
Have a look at this and write to your Democratic Representative

Biomass. Is it killing our forests?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qJ_5sLWhVyI]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288392#Comment_288392 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288392#Comment_288392 Thu, 25 Mar 2021 08:08:09 +0000 RobL Outdoors, slight tinge of woodsmoke 20ug/m3
In garage, activated carbon filtered recirc fan, soldering, thin flux cored solder 50ug/m3
As above, different solder, 999ug/m3

Yes, I was shocked with that 999 result- it maxed out the display. I have quaranteened that particular reel of solder wire, it is now for outdoor use only. That solder is a1mm reel, although I'm sure its the particular flux in it that is the issue- it says ersin 361. The thinner reel i have for SMT is much lower pm2.5, with no obvious downsides, it is Sn/Pb too, and says Rosin activated flux.
In general soldering should be done window open!]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288394#Comment_288394 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288394#Comment_288394 Thu, 25 Mar 2021 11:26:05 +0000 jms452 Posted By: fostertomI do love these home-grown experiments, however approximate, to give an order-of sense of scale to tech-based issues of the day.

Just wish we could do simple tests on air permeability of OSB, vapour permeability of EPS etc - just as it's easy to try sucking air through a material, membrane etc, using the very strong vacuum that your mouth can create, and which is easily calibrated by the height of water column it can suck up a 'drinking straw' tube.

you could measure eps vapour permeability fairly easily Tom:

glass fish tank with a cm of water in the bottom.
sheet of EPS over the top (thinner is better for the measurement).
mechanically clamp it into the fish tank rim then PU air tightness foam around the join.
keep somewhere vaguely stable in terms of temperature and RH (i.e. inside) and note down average temp & RH
weight it every day until you have a low uncertainty best fit line.]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288398#Comment_288398 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288398#Comment_288398 Thu, 25 Mar 2021 15:01:56 +0000 fostertom Posted By: jms452keep somewhere vaguely stable in terms of temperature and RH (i.e. inside) and note down average temp & RHYou mean note down temp and RH both inside and outside the tank, thus the difference (gradient across the EPS)? And what - compare that with daily loss of weight of tank (i.e rate of water evaporated out)?]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288405#Comment_288405 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288405#Comment_288405 Thu, 25 Mar 2021 17:53:44 +0000 jms452
Posted By: fostertomcompare that with daily loss of weight of tank (i.e rate of water evaporated out)?


mass loss (per unit time) combined with sheet area, sheet thickness and the differential driving conc can be used to calculate the vapour permeability.

The basic calc is very similar to heat loss (i.e. linear diffusion).]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288406#Comment_288406 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288406#Comment_288406 Thu, 25 Mar 2021 18:01:22 +0000 jms452
http://en.labthink.com/en-us/literatures/an-outline-of-standard-for-cup-method-water-vapor-permeability-testing.html]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288415#Comment_288415 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288415#Comment_288415 Fri, 26 Mar 2021 10:17:54 +0000 fostertom Posted By: jms452the internal conditions will essentially be at 100% pretty quickly. You can also assume the air in the tank is the same temperature as the air out outsideNeat]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288424#Comment_288424 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288424#Comment_288424 Fri, 26 Mar 2021 13:49:24 +0000 WillInAberdeen
You might just prefer to have two (or more) fishtanks, with EPS on one and another material on the other - woodfibre, mineral wool, breather membrane, etc. Don't bother logging data, just check after a week which one has lost its mass of water, a) at all, b) the fastest.

Use buckets if you have no fishtank.

Post us a picture of your experiment!]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288427#Comment_288427 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=288427#Comment_288427 Fri, 26 Mar 2021 15:57:57 +0000 jms452 Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=298565#Comment_298565 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=298565#Comment_298565 Wed, 02 Nov 2022 21:32:44 +0000 tony Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=298570#Comment_298570 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=298570#Comment_298570 Thu, 03 Nov 2022 00:57:54 +0000 djh Posted By: tonyOxford have just come out urging residents not to burn wood as they emit harmful polluting particulatesGood for them. There's lots of obvious stuff like that that would be so easy to do.]]> Guardian item on wood burning stoves https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=298574#Comment_298574 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=16867&Focus=298574#Comment_298574 Thu, 03 Nov 2022 09:34:49 +0000 WillInAberdeen
Was slightly alarmed that they "aim to highlight particulates .... including the use of gas heating and cookers as well as solid fuel stoves". I've never really thought about particulates from gas heating, but I suppose there must be some. Domestic boilers and cookers don't have any exhaust treatment.

As previously, they are focusing on those particulates which are already in particle form at the moment they are emitted. Most particulates actually start out as gases (NOx SOx and ammonia, from exhausts and agriculture) which get turned into particles by sunlight.]]>