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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeFeb 18th 2021
     
    Unfortunate event this. Plays directly into the hands of Trump supporting, climate change denying, Texan rednecks who will conveniently ignore the true facts and make up their own alternative ones.

    For full story see:

    https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-56085733
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeFeb 18th 2021 edited
     
    There's a lot of wind turbines in places colder and wetter than Texas - Glasgow springs to mind.

    Sounds more like they haven't designed for a wide enough range of temperatures for their whole electricity system - sort of similar to England grinding to a holt in a few mm of snow.

    And that they would benefit from interconnection.
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeFeb 18th 2021
     
    There are a whole set of issues most of which are 'we're not set up for this weather' (much like snow in England).
    There was an ice-storm first which brought down powerlines (almost all US powerlines are above ground). Then both cooling intakes for fossil stations and wind turbines which didn't have the cold-weather options (because not needed in Texas), shut down, and because ERCOT is almost entirely disconnected from the two main US grids they didn't have interconnection options either.
    Combine this with building stock even worse insulated and airtightened than the UK causing epic heating load, and hilarious things like outside-mounted tankless water-heaters and you have what I believe is technically known a munted shit-show.
    Useful info from a building POV (Matt Risinger): https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yGd9jI72Fqw
    • CommentAuthorSimonD
    • CommentTimeFeb 18th 2021
     
    Posted By: wookey and you have what I believe is technically known a munted shit-show.

    And then when the worst does happen, the press and a lot of people react in such a way that not planning and building for every conceivable eventuality, and even the inconceivable, is completely unacceptable and negligent.
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2021
     
    I think it'll be a while before we get proper details, but there is a bit more info in this article:
    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2021/feb/18/why-is-texas-suffering-power-blackouts-during-the-winter-freeze
    and more detail on 'The Choice' talking about the situation: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LgBKFLq_Xo&t=630s and interviewing the inimitable Emily Atkin on the climate connections: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDMsGRi7vIg
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2021
     
    Sections of the US media (i.e. Fox news and those right of it) are desperately trying to reframe the story from 'extreme weather' to 'renewables fail'. 'Extreme weather [& infrastructure not being up to it]' feeds into the idea that Biden's green infrastructure plans might be a good idea.

    I may be being cynical but this is probably the start of an all fronts fight against Biden's green deal where every story will be twisted and fed to the significant minority who lap it up without question :sad:
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTimeFeb 19th 2021
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: jms452</cite>Sections of the US media (i.e. Fox news and those right of it) are desperately trying to reframe the story from 'extreme weather' to 'renewables fail'. 'Extreme weather [& infrastructure not being up to it]' feeds into the idea that Biden's green infrastructure plans might be a good idea.

    I may be being cynical but this is probably the start of an all fronts fight against Biden's green deal where every story will be twisted and fed to the significant minority who lap it up without question<img src="/newforum/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/sad.gif" alt=":sad:" title=":sad:"></img></blockquote>

    I don't think you are being cynical. Like face mask wearing this will become another political divide. Assuming the BBC report is correct, the photo of the frozen wind turbine was not taken in Texas at all but in Sweden and they were using hot water rather than IPA to de-ice it. If Trump was still president he would be gleefully lapping this up. The irony is that climate change is driving the extremes of weather, so that normally sunny Texas has seen its solar PV panels covered in snow and its wind turbines frozen. The fact that it was the disruption to gas supplies that mainly caused the blackouts is conveniently played down.
  1.  
    https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/moray/2906962/clear-up-expected-to-last-until-end-of-week-after-worst-snow-in-more-than-30-years/

    There's a lot of news about Texas but I don't know how many people noticed that some parts of the UK had truly extreme snow last week?

    A friend has no heating because the oil lorry can't get through. Another had to use a JCB to dig out the council snowplough lorry that got stuck in the snow on a B-road.

    The wind turbines still seem ok.

    There's a certain amount of exasperation in Scotland whenever the UK media report on a couple of inches of snow causing mayhem in London or Texas, but nobody notices if it's in Scotland, it's feeding another political divide. But then, I'm sure our friends in Scandinavia feel the same about us! 'Extreme' weather is all relative to what you are used to, and so it makes economic sense for Texas power stations to have aircon instead of frost proofing.

    https://www.pressandjournal.co.uk/fp/news/aberdeenshire/2901649/roads-like-toboggan-runs-and-cars-submerged-beneath-snow-as-winter-weather-causes-chaos-across-the-north/
      150591787_3929310210469747_6389291336090567588_o-e1613495681492-768x461.jpg
    • CommentAuthorcjard
    • CommentTimeFeb 20th 2021
     
    From the news article:

    "The windmills failed like the silly fashion accessories they are, and people in Texas died."

    They missed off saying "So the solution is to burn even more of a finite resource so we can make sure we're hurtling headlong into a situation where there will be no more of it and then lots more Texans will die"

    News content invariably exasperates me
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTime6 days ago edited
     
    It had virtually nothing to do with wind energy..

    https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/natural-gas-power-storm/

    "Texas largely relies on natural gas for power. It wasn’t ready for the extreme cold."

    "Failures across Texas’ natural gas operations and supply chains due to extreme temperatures are the most significant cause of the power crisis that has left millions of Texans without heat and electricity during the winter storm sweeping the U.S.

    From frozen natural gas wells to frozen wind turbines, all sources of power generation have faced difficulties during the winter storm. But Texans largely rely on natural gas for power and heat generation, especially during peak usage, experts said.

    Officials for the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, which manages most of Texas’ grid, said the primary cause of the outages Tuesday appeared to be the state’s natural gas providers. Many are not designed to withstand such low temperatures on equipment or during production."

    Continues.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    Posted By: CWattersIt had virtually nothing to do with wind energy..

    https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/natural-gas-power-storm/" rel="nofollow" >https://www.texastribune.org/2021/02/16/natural-gas-power-storm/

    "Texas largely relies on natural gas for power. It wasn’t ready for the extreme cold."

    "Failures across Texas’ natural gas operations and supply chains due to extreme temperatures are the most significant cause of the power crisis that has left millions of Texans without heat and electricity during the winter storm sweeping the U.S.

    From frozen natural gas wells to frozen wind turbines, all sources of power generation have faced difficulties during the winter storm. But Texans largely rely on natural gas for power and heat generation, especially during peak usage, experts said.

    Officials for the Electric Reliability Council of Texas, which manages most of Texas’ grid, said the primary cause of the outages Tuesday appeared to be the state’s natural gas providers. Many are not designed to withstand such low temperatures on equipment or during production."

    Continues.


    Facts like this will have little effect on Trump-supporting, Texan rednecks, climate-change deniers unfortunately!
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Also Covid19 deniers Texas open for business no restrictions and no masks needed is what I heard declared this morning.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTime5 days ago edited
     
    However repugnant, it's time 'the rest of us' stopped name-calling stereotyping like 'rednecks' and instead start working hard to understand 'them'. For example, 'Hillbilly Elegy' displays many virtues such as loyalty and heart - within the 'tribe'. The ability to look, and understand, truth is the only real advantage that 'the rest of us' have. It ought to prove more effective in the world than 'their' embrace of illusions as badge of solidarity; if, as it seems, it doesn't, that's only because we don't really do the looking and understanding, as it's easier and juicier to live in our own delusions about 'them'.
    • CommentAuthorjms452
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Posted By: fostertomit's time 'the rest of us' stopped name-calling stereotyping like 'rednecks' and instead start working hard to understand


    +1

    We need to take people with us and avoid adding to the polarisation.

    Argue against the idea and not person - GBF is pretty good on that front.

    My ideas have definitely changed over time and that's always been because someone had a better argument and avoided bashing me personally.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTime5 days ago
     
    Posted By: fostertomHowever repugnant, it's time 'the rest of us' stopped name-calling stereotyping like 'rednecks' and instead start working hard to understand 'them'. For example, 'Hillbilly Elegy' displays many virtues such as loyalty and heart - within the 'tribe'. The ability to look, and understand, truth is the only real advantage that 'the rest of us' have. It ought to prove more effective in the world than 'their' embrace of illusions as badge of solidarity; if, as it seems, it doesn't, that's only because we don't really do the looking and understanding, as it's easier and juicier to live in our own delusions about 'them'.


    The problem with truth is that there is "our truth" and "their truth" as they would see it and that's the tricky bit. Anything which is perceived to impinge on civil liberties is immediately suspected to be a federal government plot to subjugate the population. Apart from the recent power cuts which they believe were down to the failure of wind turbines, witness the Texan stance on face mask wearing for example:

    https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2020/jul/02/texas-masks-coronavirus-covid-battle

    and latterly vaccine uptake (Texas is currently 53rd among all states, territories and protectorates in the share of vaccinated residents. Only just over 12% of the overall population has received one dose of a vaccine, while 6% have received both doses, according to the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention).

    From what I read our best hope is to give up on the older generation of Republicans and appeal to younger ones who it seems are becoming aware that climate change (and the influence of mankind on it) is real and action needs to be taken.
  2.  
    I agree with FT. Spreading prejudices online, that denigrate millions of people, based purely on secondhand stereotypes about the land in which they were born ..... never a good look. Even if certain newspapers do it, whether on the left or the right.

    The Texans I've met were just ordinary people, the same as people the whole world over. One of them worked for a wind turbine company. They had lots of different opinions, like everyone else does. They would probably be pretty offended if somebody who'd never met them, lumped them all together and stuck a rude label on them, ascribing them political views that s/he heard somewhere that they have (but hasn't asked them). Some of them might do the same thing back: "Facts will have no effect on Brits, they are all xxxx, yyyy, zzzz unfortunately" - doesn't sound good!
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTime4 days ago
     
    Glad to see agreement here. It's very much easier said than done, and often I for one don't see how I can even begin to dig for some empathy with an individual displaying abhorent attitude or action - whether that's something reported, or is face-to-face, or even shockinghly appearing in a friend or acquaintance.

    But I do feel that learning how to do this is the fundamental task of the moment, as everything negative seems to be gaining the upper hand. 'The rest of us' find ourselves unprepared and clueless - the old responses just seem to add fuel to the fire. If we learned to see and understand, with empathy, to see truth warts and all, we would surely gain the advantage over delusion.

    i just saw this, in
    https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2021/mar/04/variation-uncomfortable-embracing-difference-success-species
    Maybe a place to start.

    "Pick a controversial political issue that you feel strongly about: religion, immigration, the climate crisis, Covid-19 lockdowns, Brexit, or perhaps a local issue that’s important to you. Spend five minutes a day deliberately considering the issue from the perspective of people you disagree with – not to argue with them in your head, but to understand how someone who’s just as smart as you can believe the opposite of what you do. I’m not asking you to change your mind, just to truly embody someone else’s point of view. If you can honestly say, “I absolutely disagree with that view, but I understand why people might believe it,” then you’re actively helping to create a less polarised world."
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTime1 day ago
     
    Why would you believe there is a 'Global Warming' issue when your freezing to death? Is climate change a problem when the reality is that the climate is changing all the time naturally. Is the problem if it exists one of poor understanding or poor explanation. The other point of view is always valid as the real truth/solution will almost certainly lie somewhere between your truth and it.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTime1 day ago edited
     
    Posted By: Jontithe real truth/solution will almost certainly lie somewhere between your truth and it
    Not necessarily, or at least that doesn't mean the truth lies half way in between - if it's a bell curve the truth is quite likely to lie much closer to one end (hopefully mine) than the other.
    • CommentAuthorJeff B
    • CommentTime1 day ago
     
    Posted By: JontiWhy would you believe there is a 'Global Warming' issue when your freezing to death? Is climate change a problem when the reality is that the climate is changing all the time naturally. Is the problem if it exists one of poor understanding or poor explanation. The other point of view is always valid as the real truth/solution will almost certainly lie somewhere between your truth and it.


    I think it would be better to stick to the expression "climate change" rather than "global warming". The former better encompasses all the freakish weather events we are seeing around the world rather than giving the impression of being limited to excessive heat.
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTime1 day ago
     
    Posted By: fostertom
    Posted By: Jontithe real truth/solution will almost certainly lie somewhere between your truth and it
    Not necessarily, or at least that doesn't mean the truth lies half way in between - if it's a bell curve the truth is quite likely to lie much closer to one end (hopefully mine) than the other.


    And there is a perfect example of how things go wrong. Tom, what I wrote is ENTIRELY compatible with the opinion you have voiced. Don't disagree when it is embellishment that the consensus requires :wink:
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTime1 day ago
     
    Jeff B,

    I agree completely. I think the difficulty is in getting people to understand why change is needed rather than what the change needs to be.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTime1 day ago
     
    Posted By: JontiWhy would you believe there is a 'Global Warming' issue when your freezing to death? Is climate change a problem when the reality is that the climate is changing all the time naturally. Is the problem if it exists one of poor understanding or poor explanation.

    Indeed. The point that seems to be at issue most of the time is that for the past many thousands of years humans have been part of an ecosystem and have been subject to its whims, including ice ages etc. People seem to think that is still true, whereas the reality is that now we are driving the ecosystem. There are so many of us and using so much energy that we are actually affecting the global ecosystem - the weather, the acidity of the sea etc etc.

    It sounds like the plot of a bad science-fiction novel but the reality is far worse.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTime17 hours ago edited
     
    Posted By: JontiTom, what I wrote is ENTIRELY compatible with the opinion you have voiced. Don't disagree when it is embellishment that the consensus require
    Well, I was responding to
    Posted By: JontiIs climate change a problem when the reality is that the climate is changing all the time naturally.
    which, forgive me if wrong, looks like classic Climate Denier stuff, which I'm glad to say seems to have had its day, so maybe no longer needs instant rebuttal, but I did. Then
    Posted By: JontiThe other point of view is always valid as the real truth/solution will almost certainly lie somewhere between your truth and it.
    which again, forgive me if wrong, in looking totally wise and reasonable, is standard tactic meant to suggest that the Climate Denier opinion is of equal weight to the Climate Science Believer opinion, but in the technically deniable way that you have.

    That's how it looks - so where do you actually stand?
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTime16 hours ago
     
    Posted By: fostertom
    Posted By: Jontithe real truth/solution will almost certainly lie somewhere between your truth and it
    Not necessarily, or at least that doesn't mean the truth lies half way in between - if it's a bell curve the truth is quite likely to lie much closer to one end (hopefully mine) than the other.


    Tom,

    that is the post I was responding to. I wrote the truth lies 'somewhere' in between. I did not write or suggest it was halfway. To combat the climate crisis we are facing it needs a consensus to be reached. How can you build a consensus if you disagree with those who are agreeing with you????:sad:
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTime16 hours ago
     
    Posted By: djh
    Posted By: JontiWhy would you believe there is a 'Global Warming' issue when your freezing to death? Is climate change a problem when the reality is that the climate is changing all the time naturally. Is the problem if it exists one of poor understanding or poor explanation.

    Indeed. The point that seems to be at issue most of the time is that for the past many thousands of years humans have been part of an ecosystem and have been subject to its whims, including ice ages etc. People seem to think that is still true, whereas the reality is that now we are driving the ecosystem. There are so many of us and using so much energy that we are actually affecting the global ecosystem - the weather, the acidity of the sea etc etc.

    It sounds like the plot of a bad science-fiction novel but the reality is far worse.


    Indeed it does. We as a race, need to start drastically altering our use of the world resources. Homes need to use much, much less energy and also produce more of its own. People need to reduce their transport requirements hugely and not just personal transport but also transport. Then there is the whole replacing lost vegetation aspect too.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTime13 hours ago
     
    And especially stop making cement, steel, etc etc until we can find a carbon-emissions-free way of doing it.
  3.  
    One needs to be careful what one wishes for..

    If steel and cement were suddenly not available, what would people use instead, and is that any less polluting? Aluminium? Polywhatsit resin?

    Carbon-free steelmaking exists but requires vast amounts of hydrogen, which at the moment is not carbon free. The green hydrogen that might exist in future, might more usefully be used for something else.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTime7 hours ago
     
    Posted By: WillInAberdeenIf steel and cement were suddenly not available

    A more obvious choice for materials like these is to change the processes to capture the CO2 at source. A change in taxation or law or both can fix this problem. I believe the difficulty is that China makes most of both, as well as most of the emissions from power generation. Leading by example might help, who knows?
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