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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthortychwarel
    • CommentTimeSep 12th 2021
     
    Is there anyway of getting SEG payments when using either a non MSC approved installer or kit and if not why not.

    Given that any competent electrician can wire up and test a PV system why do we need MCS installers. it seems to me just to be a scam.

    Also as long as my inverter or other connection to the grid is G98 compliant what does it matter whether the panels / wind turbine etc are not MCS registered or for that matter second hand.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 12th 2021
     
    Posted By: tychwarelIs there anyway of getting SEG payments when using either a non MSC approved installer or kit
    Not as far as I know.

    if not why not
    Because them's the rules!

    Given that any competent electrician can wire up and test a PV system why do we need MCS installers. it seems to me just to be a scam.
    Even I can see that 'any competent electrician' is too broad. The installer clearly needs to be familiar with solar systems in general and with related UK legislation. Not all electricians are.

    Posted By: tychwarelAlso as long as my inverter or other connection to the grid is G98 compliant what does it matter whether the panels / wind turbine etc are not MCS registered or for that matter second hand.
    As regards why MCS is required in addition to G98, I don't know for sure, but I expect it's something to do with expanding the scale of UK generation and expertise and perhaps to do with reducing fraud.
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeSep 13th 2021
     
    Posted By: djh
    Posted By: tychwarelIs there anyway of getting SEG payments when using either a non MSC approved installer or kit
    Not as far as I know.

    Agree
    This is my understanding
    You do not need MCS electrician to install a PV system. You need a company who is MCS registered to issue the certificate on completion. Some companies do not employ an electrician they do the civils and get a self employed electrician to connect up. Some smaller installers have pulled out of the MCS because there was little benefit to the customer now that the generous FIT has gone but continue to install.
    The cost of the certificate to me was £420 and it will be along time before I get that back. When I get an BEV then could argue will never be worthwhile to export.
    The company paying you, need the MCS and DNO paperwork to enrol you for export payment.
    In terms of equipment it is the generator i.e solar panels that needs to be MCS approved the inverter and batteries are not on any MCS register at moment, inverters are however on a approved DNO list to ensure they are compliant
    The DNO need your application to ensure your inverter complies but do not need the MCS.
    If you are competent enough you can install your own but must tell the DNO and get their approval very straight forward now for a 4Kwp system.
    There is more value in using as much of what you generate as you can. I have a battery as well which does not help my export so shot myself in foot there I guess. Since install in May I am getting on a monthly average 95%+ self sufficiency will fall now days getting shorter.
    So I am now thinking export is a non starter and getting a battery is a must as although it is quite an outlay, you are basically fixing your unit cost over the life of the battery.
    I would recommend you getting your hands on a very good guide published by IET, Code of practice for grid connection of solar PV systems/ about £50 if you think of going for it.
  1.  
    From the OFGEM requirements for SEG:
    “suppliers must be satisfied that exporters’ installations are suitably safe, which could in practice mean obtaining from exporters evidence that their installation is certified to the Microgeneration Certification Scheme, or equivalent, standards”

    From Octopus Energy:
    "We accept MCS certificates and actively work with industry to ensure installations are done to a high quality. For older installs, and cases where customers don’t have an MCS certificate, we’ll work with them to see how we can help."
    https://octopus.energy/blog/outgoing/


    (AIUI you need MCS for permitted development planning permission)
    • CommentAuthortychwarel
    • CommentTimeSep 13th 2021
     
    Thanks all kind of what I thought, Given I saved about £1000 by self installing my non MCS 3kw system on an outbuilding roof, compared to MCS kit and installer. I am happy enough just using what I need and losing the rest, may well get a battery eventually to soak up the excess.
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeSep 13th 2021
     
    Posted By: tychwarelmay well get a battery eventually to soak up the excess.

    Make sure you get a hybrid inverter and best to get inverter and battery from same stable.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2021
     
    Posted By: WillInAberdeen(AIUI you need MCS for permitted development planning permission)
    No, I'm pretty sure the MCS requirement only applies to (air source?) heat pumps. I think the English and Scottish legislation runs pretty much in parallel on this stuff so I'll just reference the Scottish version. In general the PD rights for PV and solar thermal are lumped in with satellite dishes, etc, in class 2B:

    Improvements or alterations that are not an enlargement, including replacement windows, solar panels, flues and satellite dishes etc

    Class 2B – Any improvement, addition or other alteration to the external appearance of a dwellinghouse that is not an enlargement.

    This class is best visualised as a 1 metre bubble surrounding the walls and roof of a dwellinghouse. A householder an add a wide range of different types of development without having to apply for planning permission.

    Wind turbines, balconies, raised terraces or platforms are not permitted by this class.
    That's section 4.53 of:

    https://www.gov.scot/binaries/content/documents/govscot/publications/advice-and-guidance/2016/06/guidance-householder-permitted-development-rights-9781780456836/documents/00502133-pdf/00502133-pdf/govscot%3Adocument/00502133.pdf

    The actual legislation: https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/2011/357/schedule/made (though I haven't looked into more recent revisions).

    The section for ASHPs is 6.19 which does mention MCS:

    For ASHP, the limitations are that:

    an ASHP must comply with MCS Planning
    Standards or equivalent standards
    ■ development is not permitted if it would
    result in more than one ASHP on the same
    building or within the curtilage of a building
    ■ development is not permitted if it would
    result in the protrusion of an ASHP by
    more than 1 metre from the outer surface
    of an external wall, roof plane, roof ridge or
    chimney of a dwelling
    … and so on.

    I can't be bothered to find the actual legislation - it's in some other amendment somewhere.
  2.  
    Fairy nuff.

    If you were exporting right now (7.30pm 14/9/21) then Octopus would be willing to pay an utterly ridiculous £2/kWh (yes two hundred pence per unit). Nobody has seen anything like it, the electricity market has gone nuts.

    They will even buy your electricity for £2/kWh and sell it back to you later for 35p.

    It's getting dark so probably battery owners taking advantage more than PV.

    Graph from energystats.uk
      Screenshot_20210914-194508.png
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2021 edited
     
    Posted By: WillInAberdeenIf you were exporting right now (7.30pm 14/9/21) then Octopus would be willing to pay an utterly ridiculous £200/kWh for your PV (yes two hundred pounds per unit). Nobody has seen anything like it, the electricity market has gone nuts.

    Have you got a link, please? edit: I see you have now published a link, thanks.

    Octopus publish their price formula at https://octopus.energy/blog/outgoing/ so it would take some rather exceptional circumstance in the wholesale market, I think. I'm keen to learn more.

    edit: their agile pricing looks somewhat unusual too.
  3.  
    I posted before finishing editing sorry : £2.00 not £200 !

    Starting new thread about electricity price
    http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=17196
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