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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2021 edited
     
    What ho one and all,

    I have 3g glazing and as usual when the autumn / spring comes around, we get condensation on the outer panes. I have never been happy with this but am led to believe that it is a sing the the 3g is doing what it should.

    However, on the ground floor glazing, there are all these trails; I can only assume they are slugs and snails, but there is never any tell-tail slime left behind, and frankly, I doubt that any slug is randomly appearing around the top of the window with no evidence that they have come from and returned to the ground.

    It's obviously not drop of water running down so what can be causing these trails?

    Grateful for any input.

    Thanks and toodle pip
      Window.jpg
  1.  
    Snails. Looking for micro algae growing on outside of window pane.
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2021
     
    That is what it certainly look like, but usually there would be a kinda 'slime' trail left and probably also up the frame, but there is nothing obvious.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2021
     
    If you have any security cameras, you could try pointing one at the window overnight maybe (unless you're prepared to sit up until all hours - just before dawn would be my bet :bigsmile: ) ?

    Or try sticking copper tape around the outside of the window (or maybe double-sided sticky tape?) and see if that stops the trails?
    • CommentAuthorCliff Pope
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2021
     
    Do snails move fast enough to activate a movement camera? :)
    Thinks - how slowly would a burglar have to walk to avoid detection?

    In my observation they appear to have the ability to turn off their slime trails. Every morning we have slime tracks all over the sitting room rug. But there are never any tracks on the surrounding floor tiles - following one of the meandering trails it eventually reaches the edge of the rug, and then - stops.
    Conclusions - either it lives in the rug permanently, or it can turn off its slime to avoid detection. Perhaps the trail is it defecating, and snails have a very fast metabolic rate?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2021
     
    Posted By: Cliff PopeDo snails move fast enough to activate a movement camera? :)

    Wasn't suggesting a movement camera, just a 24h recording.

    Every morning we have slime tracks all over the sitting room rug.

    Eugh! Glad I live in a new house. Even a fly gets comments of 'how did that get in'. :)
  2.  
    If your childhood didn't include watching a snail crawling up a pane of glass, it's totally awesome (especially if you are 6 years old) - the foot ripples - no slime needed.

    https://youtu.be/0xBDwe1FD50

    At that age I did a school project with a glass tank full of snails in the back of the classroom. Until one night somebody left the lid loose.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2021 edited
     
    Posted By: Cliff Popehow slowly would a burglar have to walk to avoid detection?
    Snail pace!
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2021
     
    Posted By: WillInAberdeenIf your childhood didn't include watching a snail crawling up a pane of glass, it's totally awesome (especially if you are 6 years old) - the foot ripples - no slime needed.
    It wouldn't take much to change the propensity for condensation (dew) to form, or equally if the dew had already formed it'd be difficult to move across it without disturbing it.

    PS No, don't remember anything about snails from my extreme youth. And once we got to secondary school, biology was something only dullards did. I'm sure life was just as perfect then as it is now.
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2021
     
    "Eugh! Glad I live in a new house. Even a fly gets comments of 'how did that get in'. :) "

    It is only ten years old. I know how the flies get in (open windows), but I am frequently amazed that spiders even find sufficient to survive inside. Don't think we have much small flying things for a spider's meal, but what do I know?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2021
     
    Posted By: RexIt is only ten years old. I know how the flies get in (open windows)

    We've pretty much got the flys under control by fitting flyscreens to all the windows we tend to open. And SWMBO leaves a few spiders to catch the remainder. As you say it's difficult to see where they get enough food. We had one recently that gave birth to a mass of little spiders - fortunately they were all still in its web so the whole family got taken outside PDQ. Excess spiders are released outside from a catching device she has (sort of plastic box on a stick).
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2021
     
    Posted By: RexI have 3g glazing and as usual when the autumn / spring comes around, we get condensation on the outer panes. I have never been happy with this but am led to believe that it is a sing the the 3g is doing what it should.
    I'm the opposite - when I see condensation on the outside I feel very smug :)
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2021
     
    This and cost was the main reason I did not go 3g at the time we were building, guess it is better now. It was being quoted several times by Tim Pullen in Homebuilding and Renovating magazine in terms of energy saving would take 80 years payback in which time they would need replacing. The main benefit as I understand is perceived comfort when sitting close to the window. We have great views and did not want to have our view and winter sunshine blocked whilst we sat and had our breakfast.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeSep 27th 2021
     
    Yes, it's worth doing some calculations on the value of 3G. My house only has Velux windows: one vertical and 6 on a 60° sloping roof. 2 of the sloping windows need to be top hung to form a means of escape.

    I did a calculation of the incremental costs of 3G over 2G vs the cost of PV to provide the amount of energy saved by the extra pane (in a typical January). For the centre-hung windows it was close. For the top-hung windows which have a huge cost penalty for 3G (presumably because of the beefier springs needed) it was an easy choice: 2G plus a compensating extra amount of PV was significantly cheaper.

    The top-hung escape windows are in the two end bedrooms so presumably won't be likely to be sat next to. I went with 3G for the centre-pivot windows, though, because they are likely to be sat near.
    • CommentAuthorrevor
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2021
     
    Having said I did not go 3g I did on the centre pivot Velux roof windows of which I have 5, I did them as roof is insulated to PH standard. Being standard manufactured items the cost difference between 3 g and 2 g was not that prohibitive as I recall.
    • CommentAuthorbhommels
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2021 edited
     
    Posted By: Ed Davies
    I did a calculation of the incremental costs of 3G over 2G vs the cost of PV to provide the amount of energy saved by the extra pane (in a typical January).

    So you replace losing energy when you don't want to by a surplus when you don't need it? :devil:
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeSep 28th 2021
     
    Posted By: bhommelsSo you replace losing energy when you don't want to by a surplus when you don't need it?
    No, I chose the cheapest option to keep the house at a reasonable temperature.

    Yes, this will also result in more spare energy at other times of year which is a bonus. E.g., I plan to stop driving once the house is complete but if I didn't the extra PV would help supply power to an EV which an extra pane on each of the two escape windows would not.

    Fabric first is a good idea but can be taken too far.
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2021
     
    When we built around 14 years ago, I did a lot of research into 2g v 3g and obtained a lot of prices. High quality 2g was expensive, as was 3g, which was generally considerably more. Not really sure why there was such a large price difference between the different manufacturers. Was really impressed with Velfac but their prices were unaffordable.

    But had a remarkable good price from a Danish company called ProTec for 3g. Their main claim to fame was pultruded glass fibre, narrow frames. We have quite a lot of glazing and their price of £30k was too good to miss. Of course, if it is too good to be true, ..... ! ; however, I have not regrets it at all. The windows are wonderful.

    Unfortunately, ProTec were taken over by someone and appear to be no longer in business which I don't understand as pultruded glass fibre seems a very good technology.
    • CommentAuthorbxman
    • CommentTimeOct 12th 2021
     
    Do you clean the outside pane regularly ? Are the trails always in the same place possibly the material left by the snail is only apparent in some atmospheric conditions and is not washed of by the rain . Clearly the windows are still working very well worth every penny by the sound of things .
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTime6 days ago
     
    I probably don't clean them often enough, but as we have a large roof overhand, they don't get much rain on them. However, when I do clean, there always appears to be a slight 'bloom' left. It does come off with some 'aggressive' buffing, and/or lighter fuel (or similar, but I don't know what it is and why it is there. From the inside, it is not visible, only from outside when viewed as the right angle.

    Certainly don't loose any sleep over it, just annoying.
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