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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
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    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeDec 15th 2021
    So this is Elon Musk's answer to good broadband for those out in the sticks (like yours truly).

    We were on EE until the County Council stopped their temporary mast erected under dodgy "emergency services" excuse.

    So we went back to our old dish provider and were paying over £100.00 per month with a 75 gigabyte allowance.

    When EE's excuses finally vapourised, we ordered Starlink back in May of this year, which for those of you that don't know, tracks a worldwide web of orbiting satellites in close earth orbit, rather than a geostationary one around 5 times further away.

    It arrived Monday, we put it where the Starlink app suggested might be a good place. It needs a GOOD clear view of open sky, east to west (in our case). Plugged it in and by lunchtime, we were enjoying download speeds of

    50 to 300 gigabytes per second and between 20 to 50 up. The ping time averages around 35 ms.

    The service is unlimited at the moment, so no data cap.

    There are occasional 2-3 second outages, but these are seemingly unnoticeable.

    We are surrounded by trees but luckily have just a tiny obstruction in the " field of view".

    £500.00 for the kit, £84.00 a month.

    You Tube's full of demonstrations, so will leave it at that, suffice to say, it's pretty damn good!

    Sounds good, if expensive. I saw the string of satellites one night in the summer moving across the sky at speed. Thought it was UFOs
    had to google it the next day and found out what it was, had never heard of it until then.

    We use "3" over the mobile phone network, £22 per month

    having now given up on the overhead phone line speed of 200-400KB

    It's like we have entered the 20th century, more than enough for our needs.

    whereas you are now in the 21st Century!
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2021
    1 week in and all is well, if, as you say, a tad expensive, but living out here, good internet has become more and more important.

    Happy Xmas everyone.
    That is interesting thanks Dickster. Our village council are trying to raise funds to get fibre FTTP, it works out at several grand per house, so we could perhaps get satellite cheaper.

    Apparently OneWeb satellites are starting services next year so maybe competition would push the price down.

    We currently pay £15.67 per month for 10-20meg from 3 over 4G.

    You ordered in May and were connected in Dec, was that how long you expected it to take?
    • CommentAuthorJohn Walsh
    • CommentTimeDec 20th 2021
    Posted By: dickster50 to 300 gigabytes per second and between 20 to 50 up

    Surely that should be Mbps?

    Where I live (rural with 2Mbps given 3km from the nearest 'cabinet') the County Council subsidised FTTP - we went for 80/20 (d/u Mbps) for £30 per month. And, of course, no space debris, light pollution or extravagant - i.e. unsustainable - use of resources. Starlink sounds great/futuristic and what else can you do in remote locations but it sure isn't sustainable.
    • CommentTimeDec 21st 2021 edited
    Posted By: John WalshAnd, of course, no space debris, light pollution or extravagant - i.e. unsustainable - use of resources
    And, of course, no next-order-of ramping up (too late - already done) of the high energy (though weak - not a contradiction) radiations that life on earth is now bathed in. Don't tell me there are no health-and-vitality consequences - these have been systematically not investigated, except for a few straw-man aspects like microwave brain heating.

    New building regs coming in, requiring all new English homes to have a gigabit fibre connection installed. However, if this would cost more than £2k to connect (perhaps because the home is rural) then the developer has to provide the fastest possible connection they can find for less than £2k. I could imagine that being a satellite connection.
    • CommentTimeDec 29th 2021
    I've never liked Part R and the proposals seem to make it even more confusing and likely to lead to poor results. Our house has a duct leading from inside the house under the slab to a BT* manhole in the road verge just outside our drive. At present there's a BT-supplied cable from a socket in our utility room that goes through the duct and other BT ducts to a roadside cabinet that has BT fibre inside it. (i.e. we have FTTC.) The BT men who visited recently told me that if I ever requested an upgrade to FTTP they would happily install a fibre in place of (or perhaps in addition to) to the existing cable and replace the socket with an appropriate new termination.

    This arrangement does not conform to Part R (it lacks an external access point and doesn't involve the penetration through my wall that Part R now insists on) but apparently BT people are happy with it.

    The new proposals apparently wouldn't make any difference to my situation if I was building now, apart from requiring the stupid hole through the wall and fixings in the outer skin and one more connection in the circuit.

    But as far as I can see the requirement will only require 'gigabit capable' infrastructure to a block of flats. It doesn't require 100-gigabit capable if there are 100 flats, or any increase at all depending on the number of dwellings. So it sounds like "they"'ll be happy if everybody in a flat gets about the same bandwidth as I get now with my FTTC connection.

    And as Will points out if they go for option 3 and just provide a common access point then a likely solution might be an expensive-to-run-for-the-occupant satellite link. Cheap for the regulator and builder and BT. Just expensive for the poor punter.

    * I used BT as shorthand for Openreach or whatever is the actual organization involved.
    • CommentAuthordickster
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2021
    Yeah, sorry, Mbs not giga. WillnAberdeen, expected to wait longer, note that we got the old beta ovoid dish, not new rectangular.

    We are 11km from exchange, however we also "donated" £6K to our local go fund me group and were accepted by Openreach for the "village" to get fibre broadband, guaranteeing 13 Mb/s down sometime in the future. We'll see what happens.

    John, unsustainable, depends on what you mean, but a use of finite resources yes. Space debris, a bit of a stretch, all satellites designed to de-orbit and burn up after 5-7 years, so I am advised. Light pollution, at the moment there are on average 2-3 car sized satellites over England at any one time, quite hard to spot after the reflective surfaces have been modified!.

    It's interesting that I myself have no objection to a country putting more sats into space, but the thought of a private individual imposing his will on all our space seems wrong.

    As it was with my astronomy geek mate who complained bitterly about Elon, but was happy to use Starlink exhaustively on his last visit.

    For us, it's a godsend and allows her outdoors much more easy access to the outside world when she's in. It's not just the speed, it's the fact that we can rely on it that counts big time.

    Happy New Year Everybody, including Fostertom, of course. :)
    Our village group are working with a not-for-profit rural fibre company, and the resource consumption involved seems very considerable.

    Basically they want to dig a trench to every property within 1.5 miles of their proposed hub location, about 150 properties, perhaps 20 miles of trenches. The trenches need to go through gardens, fields, woodland etc as that is safer/simpler/cheaper than trenching under pavements or road verges. However the trenches will need to cross many roads. They are asking for farmers to donate excavators and JCBs to dig the trenches and volunteers to work then. They will pay for diesel and the hardware, total about £300k, half funded by grants and half by households.

    Something similar would presumably be needed to connect many other communities in many countries.

    Given that 1000s of these mini satellites can apparently connect 10s of millions of homes around the world, and up to 100 mini satellites are launched in each rocket, I suspect that the satellites are much less environmentally damaging and resource intensive than digging trenches to lay fibre to those 10s of millions of homes. I have not seen any comparative studies (anyone?).

    Obviously horses/courses, if you already live right next to a BT duct then that would be a better option.

    It's rather galling that some people are getting taxpayer funded fibre connections, and others are being asked to pay those taxes and also find £1000s and volunteer our time to get fibre ourselves...! That would pay for several years of satellite connection.

    On the plus side, rolling out good internet connections seems to be recognised as environmentally positive, eg if it saves rural people driving into town to access services.
    We are rural and outside the village (by some 2km) to boot. Our internet comes via microwave link to an ariel in the village. OK line of sight is needed but it works well and the speed is periodically increased as the equipment is upgraded. This seems to be a forgotten option and certainly cheaper than digging ditches across the countryside.
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2021
    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryWe are rural and outside the village (by some 2km) to boot. Our internet comes via microwave link to an ariel in the village. OK line of sight is needed but it works well and the speed is periodically increased as the equipment is upgraded. This seems to be a forgotten option and certainly cheaper than digging ditches across the countryside.

    I had an Ionica phone last century, which worked well as long as the company existed, so I believe in the technology. I think some of the community internet groups use longer range wireless systems for the backhaul as well as local distribution.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeDec 30th 2021
    There are a few such networks on the west coast of Scotland, e.g, https://www.skyenet.co.uk/
    Yes, there's one of those in a village a few miles from us, but only good for 10-20Mb/s which is about what we get on 4G, going to need something better than that in next few years. No line of sight here either, it's hilly.

    Eventually we might get 5G but Im not holding my breath!
    • CommentAuthorJonti
    • CommentTimeDec 31st 2021
    My property is has 2 miles of copper cable between it and the distribution cabinet in the village.

    I used to get 0.5Mb/s on average sometimes less but never achieving 1Mb/s when I was with BT. As far as the Scottish government is concerned because fibre is going into the distribution cabinet we are now connected to superfast broadband. BT kept on offering us this pointing out that the copper broadband net work is supposed to be turned off in 2023 in our area and that meant the old broadband would no longer work. They tried twice both times failed. I am now with a local wireless provider which is cheaper and affords speeds of 50Mb/s to 70Mb/s.

    Different world and I am surprised this has not been offered more widely.
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeJan 13th 2022
    • CommentTimeJan 13th 2022
    Excellent :bigsmile: :cool:
    :bigsmile: The pic is apparently on a farm in Alberta, where antennas are trace-heated so all the snow/ice doesn't knock them over. Wonder if the Scottish market will get that feature?!

    You can get special spikes to stop seagulls perching on antennas, probably also work on cats!
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeJan 26th 2022
    Posted By: WillInAberdeenYou can get special spikes to stop seagulls perching on antennas, probably also work on cats!

    If you use metal spikes you can probably pick up Radio 4 as well :-)
    I listen to Radio 4 on-demand via the internet app, so it's definitely available on Starlink, no cats or seagulls necessary!

    Radio 4 Longwave is apparently getting turned off soon, so after that Economy 7 meters won't be able to listen to the time signal anymore, even via cat-seagull antennas


    Or even via nuclear submarines! https://www.express.co.uk/showbiz/tv-radio/1528497/bbc-radio-4-today-programme-off-air-doomsday-protocol-nuclear-war-shipping-forecast-spt
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeJan 30th 2022
    I know next to nothing about Starlink but this just arrived on my Quora feed. don't know if it adds to the thread or not.

    Why doesn't SpaceX raise the orbit of Starlink satellites by a few dozen or a few hundred kilometers which would result in launching and maintaining a lot less amount of satellites?

    Wayne Boyd
    Updated Nov 3, 2021 · Author has 3.9K answers and 5.1M answer views

    Latency. Musk wants high speed Internet with low latency. Latency is the time it takes a signal to go up to the satellite and come back down. Essentially, the time you click something on a web page and the web page’s response.

    The speed of light is a factor and it’s why, up till now, satellite Internet sucks. The satellites are at geostationary orbit 22,236 miles (35,786 kilometers) above Earth's equator. Accessing the Internet via that route feels very sluggish. It’s high speed, but it’s bad latency.

    Elon wanted to have something better. For his satellites, the closer to you the better.

    My daughter and her husband are using StarLink. They live in rural Missouri. When visiting them last week, I used their WiFi on my phone. It’s fast. I had no idea the general public could use it right now.

    There’s a pole on their deck. On top of the metal pole is a weird looking dish. It’s not big and doesn’t look like your average satellite disk. It looks like a medium to small pizza shape and it moves. The dish is so cool, too. It moves around on it’s own and if it snows or sleets, it heats up and melts the ice. It’s not at all like Dish or DirecTV. It’s a smart dish!

    I’m not sure how all that works but the Internet during the 2 days we stayed with them was absolutely fantastic. They said during bad weather the connection was hit and miss.
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2022
    Article in today's Telegraph (https://www.telegraph.co.uk/world-news/2022/02/09/elon-musk-loses-40-starlink-satellites-following-devastating/) that Starlink satellites are suffering from a solar storm!!!
    • CommentTimeFeb 10th 2022
    Was it 24, or 42 satellites wrecked (even tho they made em fly edge-on to whatever it was)? a trifle, when there's going to be 20,000 or more of them! Soon, no hiding place on earth, from the death rays!
    • CommentAuthorEd Davies
    • CommentTimeFeb 11th 2022
    Approx 40 out of the (IIRC) 49 on that launch. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9kIcEFyEPgA An unfortunate waste but, as FT says, a trifle.

    tl;dw (too long, didn't watch): they were newly launched satellites in a very low orbit which were supposed to raise their own orbits to their operational altitude but a solar storm heated the upper layers of the atmosphere causing it to expand and increase the drag on the spacecraft. They put them in the edge-on position to reduce the drag until the storm subsided which meant they couldn't use their ion thrusters to raise the orbits. They then also found that the drag was sufficient that their very weak magneto-torquers and/or reaction wheels couldn't twist them out of that orientation so their orbits decayed to the point where the ion thrusters couldn't lift them back up.

    It seems at least two have already de-orbited: https://sattrackcam.blogspot.com/2022/02/this-week-rainshowers-with-slight.html
    • CommentTimeFeb 11th 2022
    Oo er - reminds me of the mind-busting 'The Three Body Problem' SF trilogy.
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