Ripple seem to have a sensible idea. Instead of paying 10 grand for my own solar panels or turbine and suffering constraints imposed by own install site, I give Ripple 10 grand and they perform a perfect install in an ideal location, and (simplistically) ship the energy to me via the grid

I was a bit disappointed by the numbers though:

We estimate if you own enough to meet 100% of your home's electricity consumption, you'll save up to 25% off your bills when you join Ripple.

A typical bill is made up of your electricity usage plus 'non-energy' costs. These include grid charges, taxes and supplier costs. As your power is still supplied via the grid, you will still need to pay these. This is why your electricity won't be free, but your bills should be a lot more stable.

So even though I've bought enough generation to cover my needs, getting it to me costs so much that it will only cover 25% of my needs. If I'm on a 30p tariff I get a discount of 7.5p per kWh on my bill and Ripple spend 22.5p getting it to me.

What I don't quite get is, if I have an install so big that I can sell to the grid I might get 20p/kWh on a tariff where if I consume then it's 30.. so somehow Octopus can take my generated electric and get it to someone else via the grid for about half what Ripple can get my electricity to me for..

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Got me wondering if smaller scale grid would be viable and legal; I've got a big roof - what's stopping me installing more solar than I need and selling it to the neighbours by throwing a wire over the wall? Could local mini grids be operated more viably and cheaper for all than what Ripple propose? And is it worth it when Octopus will give you 20p for an MCS accredited install? Is it worth having a non accredited install, installed for less and selling the electricity to the neighbours for less than 20p?

Octopus are both buyers and sellers of electricity and are one of the Big Six, so their overhead costs are much lower than Ripple's who are still a tiny company.

Octopus's breakdown in 2020 was : 40% of their bill was for the energy, 20% for transmission costs, 20% for their company overheads, 20% for taxes and levies. Since then, I expect energy costs are a greater % and so everything else is less % but I didn't see more recent figures.

With renewables, the direction is towards more subsea HV connections with Norway, Germany, NL, France and even Morocco, so if there is less wind/sun in one area then import from someone else and vv. The UK 'national' grid will eventually be part of a Europe-wide network and it will not be meaningful to think about costs or emissions on a single nation basis.

If instead there were neighborhood micro grids, everyone would need a lot of duplicated storage which wouldn't be efficient.

Posted By: cjardWhat I don't quite get is, if I have an install so big that I can sell to the grid I might get 20p/kWh on a tariff where if I consume then it's 30.. so somehow Octopus can take my generated electric and get it to someone else via the grid for about half what Ripple can get my electricity to me for..

I don't know where your 20p for export comes from octopus paid me 9.88 p per unit, and charged me 33p for what I used. Fortunately got more for export than what I paid but the standing charge of 60p per day made a big dent in it.
Actual spent on electricity was £2.50 standing charge £16.19.

Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryRemember the nord stream 2 pipeline before going too far down that route !

Think about who owns that pipeline and who may have attacked it. Now think about the consequences of a nation attacking a cable owned by a NATO member.

So by the time the co-op have taken out their running costs (assuming it is a non-profit set up) and Ripple have taken their operating costs plus profit I'm not surprised there is a 75% overhead.

I would presume this type of deal would be with the person not the house - So if you move house you take the deal with you.

Posted By: cjardCould local mini grids be operated more viably and cheaper for all than what Ripple propose?

There are several trials of this approach going on right now in the West Country:

https://bristolenergy.coop/powering-new-homes-with-smart-microgrids/

Whilst they may not be suitable everywhere, there's definitely some overlap with this type of generation and the approach to funding and retrofitting whole streets and neighbourhoods at a time in order to capitalise on efficiencies of scale.

If households are more incentivised to join in with a community scheme because they get some sort of payback/discount on their bills then that has to be for the greater good even if there is some doubling-up of the actual infrastructure.