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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2024
     
    What ho one and all,

    I do read many of the threads relating to EWI and although I do understand, I also don't understand.

    I am not considering it as I have quite a lot of insulation in my t/f house. However, a neighbour is in the process of having it fitted. Naturally, I do understand the insulation benefits,

    But !

    My house has the insulated inner wall, the cavity and a block and render external. During building, I did consider changing the block and rend for some kind of external insulation and render but wa told by the BCO that as I was changing the specs, I would have to reapply for Building Control.

    But he also told me, and this is what I don't understand about EWI, that since the cavity is ventilated, the outer wall is considered external as it has cold air on both sides and does not improve the insulation values.

    So what am I missing?

    Thanks
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2024
     
    Posted By: RexBut he also told me, and this is what I don't understand about EWI, that since the cavity is ventilated, the outer wall is considered external as it has cold air on both sides and does not improve the insulation values.
    You're not missing anything. That's why it's essential to full fill a cavity before applying EWI. And change it from being a ventilated cavity to an unventilated one.
  1.  
    There's a good technical paper on avoiding thermal bypass, available here:

    https://www.passivhaustrust.org.uk/guidance_detail.php?gId=55

    Essentially you really want to avoid convective loops on the warm side of your insulation, especially if these are linked to outside air.

    On a related note, I assume that most of the moisture risks in full-filling existing cavities that are mentioned in this paper would effectively be mitigated by the outer layer of EWI. Clearly you'd need to check this with your installer.
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2024
     
    Interesting paper with too many numbers for me to understand!!!!

    I did find it interesting regarding the density of blown cellulose insulation to prevent slumping. I have Warmcel insulation and the internal 'barrier' was the supplied scrim. the insulation had to be pushed back to fit the dry-lining, so I guess I have sufficient density to prevent slumping.

    But....... during the build, it was necessary to do so stuff and I found in a number of locations at the top of the insulation, a 300mm cavity, caused by slumping. Had to get them back to fill the voids.

    Personally, I cannot see how a 2400 x 600 x 180 space filled with blown cellulose cannot slump.

    I would therefore think that blown cavity insulation on a two story house would slump.

    My house is sufficiently warm not to require EWI or cavity filling.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2024
     
    Posted By: RexI cannot see how a 2400 x 600 x 180 space filled with blown cellulose cannot slump
    True - you have to put in things for the Warmcel to grip onto, at vertical intervals. For new studwork, weave light galv garden wire in/out of the studs @ 300 vertical c/cs, winding round a nail head, before blopwing it in. Easy, cheap.

    Interesting that your Warmcel was retained by scrim, rather than e.g. the plasterboard - good practice that I've only seen in Americal instructions. The pressure can easily blow the plasterboard off its nails/screws. The scrim is stapled to the sides of the studs, a little way back from their room face. The scrim bulges when filled. You can easily roller back any xs bulges before fixing the pbd. With scrim you can also see visually that all nooks and crannies are filled.
    • CommentAuthorRex
    • CommentTimeFeb 14th 2024
     
    The main reason for using the scrim is that I did not fancy making 100mm holes into each and every vertical drop between studs and then having to fill them all. Scrim was a lot easier.

    I did put some scrap timber 'noggins' in as I was doubtful about the non-slumping claims. I actually wanted the Warmcel to be damp sprayed so that it goes like papier-mâché but the original installation company went into liquidation and the alternative said they could not do it with 180mm depth as there was a tenancy for it to just fall out.
    I'm certain I could have prevented that happening but it would have taken more time and money.

    "With scrim you can also see visually that all nooks and crannies are filled." Yes, but inevitably, the density will be greater at the bottom than the top, hence why I subsequently found gaps at the top where settlement had occurred.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2024
     
    With our Warmcel they used a mixture of scrim in some places and behind Panelvent in others. IIRC the stuff has glue or something to hold it together and prevent slumping? The pump measures the quantity supplied to guarantee that there aren't gaps, I believe. We have a certificate of the amount installed.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeFeb 15th 2024
     
    Posted By: Rexinevitably, the density will be greater at the bottom than the top
    I wouldn't think so - friction against containing things would initially exceed downward compression by weight. Later on, yes slump may occur, slowly bit by bit.
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