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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthormarktime
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2024
     
    Spain has experienced its Grenfell moment with a fire that consumed a 10-storey block tied to a 14-storey block by a fancy lift. Set ablaze a total of 138 apartments within approximately 1 hour, yes you read that right 1 hour. Fire started on the fourth floor of the 10-storey block at 17.35 and by 18.45 both buildings were completely engulfed in flames.

    Construction was concrete block inner facade exterior covered with rockwool, a cavity then a sandwich of two plates of aluminium with 50 mm of synthetic material in between. No details of this material yet.

    9 confirmed dead, one other unaccounted for.
  1.  
    It seems that the only thing flammable might be the sandwich material. Concrete blocks and rockwool are not combustible and aluminium is also regarded as non combustible which leaves the sandwich material and the chimney effect of the cavity and the aluminium plates once the sandwich material has melted or combusted.

    Wait for the investigation results and then the panic because this might affect who knows how many high-rise that weren't insulated the way of Grenfell.

    First thoughts are that cavities are not a good idea on high-rise facades !
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeFeb 24th 2024
     
    Aluminium can burn and if/when it does it produces crazy amounts of heat, it is difficult but not impossible to ignite.
  2.  
    Posted By: tonyAluminium can burn and if/when it does it produces crazy amounts of heat, it is difficult but not impossible to ignite.

    Aluminium will need in excess of 1000 deg. to ignite and won't sustain combustion without additional heat and oxygen (according to a google search) however these requirements may be met if the sandwich material was flammable and the chimney effect of the cavity managed to combine to give the required circumstance for the aluminium to burn - which leads me to

    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryFirst thoughts are that cavities are not a good idea on high-rise facades !


    The other ingredients, concrete and rockwool are considered non combustible.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeFeb 25th 2024
     
    I saw something that said the sandwich filling was PUR foam, but don't remember where, sorry. Also IIRC the Grenfell cladding was aluminium faced so it certainly does burn in the 'right' circumstances.
  3.  
    AIUI the Grenfell aluminium cladding product was weatherproofing/decorative, separate from the insulation layer. It was two thin skins of aluminium sandwiched with a polyethylene core. The aluminium passed the 'surface fire resistance' test, but during the fire the core melted/burned so the aluminium skins became unsupported and fell off. I have no idea if the Spain tragedy is similar.

    Aluminium does burn when powdered, look for a video of it being used to weld rail tracks together.
    • CommentAuthormarktime
    • CommentTimeFeb 25th 2024 edited
     
    The rockwool cladding seems to have been totally consumed and the anchorage points for the aluminium panels are also not visible. The drywall panels have certainly been consumed with only the steel battens remaining.
      Valencia fire.jpg
    • CommentAuthorborpin
    • CommentTimeFeb 28th 2024
     
    The fire-resistant failure looks to be the external windows and doors. As long as these can resist the fire, the rooms would be safe.

    That picture shows the rockwool/concrete surviving.

    I noted a long time ago that in Grenfell, the metal windows had been replaced with UPVC. Of course, the glazing will matter, but if the frame is plastic, that will go first.
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