Green Building Forum - Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

just_breathe — Mon, 25 Mar 2024 17:58:44 +0000

Hi

I’m convinced either our neighbours shower is leaking water or we have damp in our basement party wall (no where else!) caused by our neighbour (end terrace up hill).

He insists the shower isn’t leaking but last time I got a sneaky look in his basement plasterboard was hanging down.

But he also says things like there’s an underground stream - I dug out our concrete floor and removed all cement from walls and as my username suggest, used glapor, limestone flags, cork and lime hemp. No where else is damp and I’m gutted he won’t try to find the issue as don’t want to fall out.

What are my rights, I know it’s prob not coming from ground as rest of basement is dry, so in the cavity in our rear extension which is ground levels above basement - surely I’d see condensation?

Help appreciated!!

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

Mike1 — Tue, 26 Mar 2024 12:42:17 +0000

Posted By: just_breatheWhat are my rights

You could no doubt claim for damages under the principle established by Rylands v Fletcher - https://www.studysmarter.co.uk/explanations/law/civil-law/rule-in-rylands-v-fletcher/ If you have legal cover on your house insurance that may help.

But before going into that, you may want to invite him round to see the evidence & discuss likely causes.

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

Mike1 — Tue, 26 Mar 2024 15:54:56 +0000

Posted By: Mike1You could no doubt claim for damages under the principle established by Rylands v Fletcher

Having now had time to ready my own link, looks like things have moved on since I studied the subject pre 2003 with the case of Transco plc v Stockport Metropolitan Borough Council. Consequently you'd have to look at other aspects of nuisance or negligence instead.

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

djh — Tue, 26 Mar 2024 15:55:48 +0000

Haven't come across Ryland vs Fletcher before, but I'd want expert legal advice before trying to rely on it. The article says "whereas common residential activities ... are considered natural uses" (there's no suggestion this is anything but common residential activities is there?) and "Damage must have been caused by something escaping or flowing out of the defendant's land" (proving this is just_breathe's problem I think?).

So trying to get good evidence and then discussing the situation with the neighbour is definitely the first priority, IMHO.

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

just_breathe — Thu, 04 Jul 2024 17:56:52 +0100

Posted By: djhHaven't come across Ryland vs Fletcher before, but I'd want expert legal advice before trying to rely on it. The article says "whereas common residential activities ... are considered natural uses" (there's no suggestion this is anything but common residential activities is there?) and "Damage must have been caused by something escaping or flowing out of the defendant's land" (proving this is just_breathe's problem I think?).

So trying to get good evidence and then discussing the situation with the neighbour is definitely the first priority, IMHO.

So sorry for going quiet, I must have notifications off, and forgotten I’d posted.

I decided to employ my much more diplomatic OH, but even she is getting the same “I’ll get my brother in law to have a look, I do have damp in my basement so it needs to be sorted” and 3 months on and still not acting. He has been around and seen the evidence.

The issue is he is a nice chap, so I don’t want to fall out.

The other thing I’m also worried about is if this is caused by his tanking which I wasn’t aware of, as he is slightly uphill and both our rears are dug into sandstone, then the trapped moisture is coming our way by his designed solution - surely that’s illegal? Would there have been a party wall agreement as if so that would have been before our time, if the works were compliant with building control approval where can I confirm and what can I do where we are probably which is now 20 years down the line. ?

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

just_breathe — Thu, 04 Jul 2024 17:59:27 +0100

Ps a shower or tanking causing additional water ingress into a party wall surely isnt something we should suffer.

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

djh — Thu, 04 Jul 2024 20:06:44 +0100

I think (but IANAL) that a leaking shower would be his responsibility to fix. But if he has protected his building against damp coming in from outside, and as a result the water instead runs downhill onto your land and penetrates your building then I think that would be your problem to fix. The party wall may complicate things but I'm sure there are standard solutions.

If I were in your shoes, I'd probably try to locate a suitably qualified surveyor (I think that's the right type of person?) and offer to pay for their time. Then I'd suggest to your neighbour that the surveyor looks at both your properties to decide what the problem(s?) is or are. It should then be obvious who needs to do what work to resolve the problem.

If your neighbour really is a nice chap, I can't see why he would object to this. Alternatively he might suggest his brother in law is suitably qualified (is he?) in which case I'd offer to share the cost of his time so I had a contract to rely on. And insist on the inspection being done promptly!

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

just_breathe — Fri, 05 Jul 2024 02:12:46 +0100

He tanked the inside of his cellar.

Yes I’d to confirm or eliminate the shower first, it’s just getting him to act with any sense of urgency, it’s been 3 years since I raised it with him, and now 3 months since my OH has been trying.

The reason I’ve come back for advice is that I saw photos of the sheer amount of single handed putting right of our basement using breathe-able material and so I’m gutted and getting slightly more angry about the situation.

I’ve also just qualified as a DEA and Retrofit assessor but non of the courses teach you the correct method of conflict resolution for issues that should have an easy resolution - this is why I’m asking about if building regs would need to sign off internal tanking ?

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

Peter_in_Hungary — Fri, 05 Jul 2024 10:29:13 +0100

Getting (or letting) the brother in law to haver a look at the problem is IMO not a good idea. I can not imagine he can not be biased and by letting him look you will give a tacit acknowledgement of his findings.

If you are going to get a professional to look at the problem then they have to be independent and it is best if you and your neighbour agree on the professional first.

Your neighbour might be a 'nice chap' but he has no incentive to do anything and the consequence of any findings could cost him money. In his position I would also avoid/delay any action that might show that works that I had done would need revising in any way.

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

revor — Fri, 05 Jul 2024 12:37:50 +0100

Posted By: just_breathethis is why I’m asking about if building regs would need to sign off internal tanking ?

I do not know but my instinct is that it would come under building control as it could be considered a structural alteration.

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

djh — Fri, 05 Jul 2024 15:08:05 +0100

I don't believe that waterproofing your own property can make you responsible for anybody else's property. Sorry but I think if the source of the water is external, you have to solve your own problem.

I don't think tanking a wall or cellar requires building regulations approval.

I agree that the brother-in-law might be biased. That is why I suggest only agreeing to his services if he is qualified and if you have a contract with him. Otherwise you need to reject the idea.

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

Peter_in_Hungary — Fri, 05 Jul 2024 16:26:52 +0100

Posted By: djhI agree that the brother-in-law might be biased. That is why I suggest only agreeing to his services if he is qualified and if you have a contract with him.

I've seen too many biased reports from qualified experts, from the very public ones e.g. tobacco industry and the oil industry re climate change to private ones about some development or other.

Therefore IMO

Posted By: djhyou need to reject the idea.

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

djh — Fri, 05 Jul 2024 16:29:57 +0100

Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryI've seen too many biased reports from qualified experts, from the very public ones e.g. tobacco industry and the oil industry re climate change to private ones about some development or other.

And how many of those reports did you pay for directly?

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

revor — Fri, 05 Jul 2024 19:37:51 +0100

Posted By: djhI don't think tanking a wall or cellar requires building regulations approval.

If it is a party wall I think you would need a party wall agreement.

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

djh — Fri, 05 Jul 2024 20:07:09 +0100

Posted By: revorIf it is a party wall I think you would need a party wall agreement.

I don't believe so. You're not doing any 'work' in the meaning of the act. Unless you're also changing some physical part of the structure, such as inserting a damp proof course.See https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/preventing-and-resolving-disputes-in-relation-to-party-walls/the-party-wall-etc-act-1996-explanatory-booklet "the key point is whether your planned work might have any possible consequences for the structural strength and support functions of the party wall as a whole, or cause damage to the Adjoining Owner’s side of the wall."

Damage from neighbours tanking years down the line

Peter_in_Hungary — Fri, 05 Jul 2024 20:15:28 +0100

Posted By: djh
Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryI've seen too many biased reports from qualified experts, from the very public ones e.g. tobacco industry and the oil industry re climate change to private ones about some development or other.
And how many of those reports did you pay for directly?

2 and both done by court appointed experts.