Green Building Forum - Octopus Intelligent Go

Octopus Intelligent Go

revor — Sat, 04 May 2024 17:20:10 +0100

Whilst on cables in around 2010/11 there was a big issue with flat T&E from China which had got into our UK system. At the time were were doing our house and the cable in question had a similar name to the one we were using. BASEC said what we had was from Turkey and was to specification but many thousands possibly millions of Km of dodgy cable have gone into properties with little traceability where it has gone. The problem with it was the copper was thinner than the spec so could court problems under load.

Something have learnt over last couple of days is that the RJ45 networking only uses 2 twisted pairs i.e. 4 wires the Orange and green. Brown and Blue not used. Guess many of you will know this but it offers possibilities of using the unused pairs for something else rather than perhaps run another cable. It explains why some the patch leads I have got, fail the connection test. They are only using the 2 pairs.

Octopus Intelligent Go

djh — Sat, 04 May 2024 21:07:44 +0100

Posted By: revorSomething have learnt over last couple of days is that the RJ45 networking only uses 2 twisted pairs

Depends on the speed, I think. GB ethernet uses all the wires IIRC.

Octopus Intelligent Go

GreenPaddy — Sun, 05 May 2024 11:41:21 +0100

@Revor

I fitted an Ohme pro EV charger unit, before I swithced to Octopus GO. Luckily, Octopus are partnered up with Ohme, so they talk to each other seamlessly. I suspect it's Octopus that are the brains behind that?
However turns out Ohme don't integrate with solar PV, so I can't recommend Ohme on that basis. They say they are working on including solar - let's see.

I installed the EV charger myself and used a combined power and data (just 2 cores for the data side, which are intended for CT clamps, in the case of current limiting needs). The Ohme uses a 4G mobile card inside it, to communicate with Octopus and any apps.

Octopus Intelligent Go

revor — Mon, 06 May 2024 08:29:54 +0100

Posted By: GreenPaddyI installed the EV charger myself

I have gone for the Zappi it's on order along with a Harvi. Will also install myself. Whilst I have a multimeter, in order to test the built in RCD on the charger one needs a device to link the charger to the multimeter. Is the Ohme similarly configured and if so do you know if there is another way of testing?. What I have gleamed it must not have an RCD upstream something to do with DC leakage possibility which I don't understand the significance of. it was a similar situation w.r.t my inverter.

Octopus Intelligent Go

revor — Mon, 06 May 2024 11:01:28 +0100

meant multitester not multimeter system won't let me edit.

Octopus Intelligent Go

GreenPaddy — Tue, 07 May 2024 17:08:01 +0100

@Revor.

You will likely have an "AC" type RCD installed already in your dist board. For the Ohme unit (and I think any EV charger), this needs to be replaced by an "A" type (to avoid DC interference). Not aware of the need to externally test the Ohme RCD. I'm happy with my installation safety, but I'm not certified to give advice... Values may go up aswell as down, and volcanoes may erupt without warning.

Octopus Intelligent Go

djh — Tue, 07 May 2024 17:54:31 +0100

Looking at https://electrical.theiet.org/wiring-matters/years/2019/77-september-2019/which-rcd-type/ for example, it appears that the type of RCD that should be used depends on the particular type of EV charger that you have. Which suggests to me that you should refer to the manufacturer's installation instructions when deciding how to install it and what type of RCD to use.

edit to add: the IET document says that if you cannot determine what to use from the manufacturer, you should use a [very expensive] type B RCD

Octopus Intelligent Go

WillInAberdeen — Tue, 07 May 2024 21:59:36 +0100

Since last year you also need a Surge Protection Device, to protect your expensive car electronics if your mains gets stuck by lightning.

You also need a PME fault detection device, unless the charger has one built-in (or you have an earth spike and can test it)

You might want Arc Fault detection.

It's a bit more involved than most home electrics!

Octopus Intelligent Go

WillInAberdeen — Fri, 10 May 2024 12:51:57 +0100

Related: an amendment to the wiring regs is being rushed through, because of problems with RCDs.

Some circuits can draw power from the consumer unit and also feed power back into the CU. Examples are inverters such as PV, batteries and (increasingly) EV chargers will be able to backfeed.

Many existing RCDs only work in one direction and their internals can be permanently disabled if power flows back in the other direction.

So the regs will be changed that only specific RCDs may be used for EV chargers and inverters which are suitable for bidirectional circuits.

Also, the RCD for a current source such as inverter or EV charger needs to be 2-pole to break both L and N connections. Many RCDs are single pole and leave N connected.

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.org.uk/blog/have-your-views-heard-on-bs-7671-2018-amendment-3/

Octopus Intelligent Go

djh — Fri, 10 May 2024 17:04:31 +0100

Thanks for the heads up, Will. Sounds sensible. Does everybody see the same as me:

"How do I access the document and submit any comments?

"To view the document and to provide comments you must register via the ."

or is it just me? And the possibly associated:

"NOTE: Due to a technical issue, the commenting section will not be available until Thursday 9th May." !! ?

Octopus Intelligent Go

revor — Sun, 12 May 2024 14:59:13 +0100

The recommendations are changing all the time. As part of looking into the charger issue issue I came across this link below and included video of a look see into a Zappi. At same time had been looking at the latest install instructions on My energy website.
The article and video were at odds with one another. The video stated as the zappi had an on board RCD there was no need for a type A or type B RCD upstream. However the zappi install states the the built in RCD is a 30ma A RCD with 6ma DC leakage detection and local requirement should be considered whether a upstream type A should be required.
Other editions of the Zappi manual state a type A RCD should be fitted. When I look at the date of the e-Fixx article that is from 2019 and clearly product improvements and regulations have changed. So one needs to be on the ball and not necessarily follow what is on you tube. (The company that do these electrical "tutorials" produce some excellent stuff and one wonders if when things change they should be taken down. But then they do provide, as in this case, a valuable insight into the workings of the zapppi. Viewer beware!)

My zappi on order came this week but have asked for a replacement the box had opened the cardboard innards badly damaged charger not replaced in the box properly and no install instructions. The date on the box Nov 2022.
Hope I will get the latest charger and the appropriate instructions that go with it . Have also ordered the EVSE test-box to link the charger to my multifunction tester so hopefully will end up with a pukka job.

https://www.efixx.co.uk/Articles/the-electric-vehicle-charger-which-doesn-t-need-an-earth-rod

Octopus Intelligent Go

revor — Sun, 12 May 2024 19:59:23 +0100

Posted By: revorThe article and video were at odds with one another.

Correction they are not at odds with one another they are at odds with the zappi install instructions.

Octopus Intelligent Go

revor — Wed, 29 May 2024 22:16:51 +0100

For those with solar and battery which you can control when to import and export you might find Octopus intelligent go flux of interest. My system does not allow me to control the battery so of use to me, but a friend who has a decent amount of storage capacity and a more flexible inverter says it is very worthwhile.

Octopus Intelligent Go

GreenPaddy — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 08:41:30 +0100

Hi,

this may be of interest, to anyone wondering about how the Oct Intel GO billing works. I've attached a snap of one day's billing info.
The bill has a page for EVERY day of the bill period, showing what was consumed for each 30 minute period.

I'm a complete saddo, but to me this is fantastic. I had been wondering how Oct would show my consumption, to corroborate their bill. (you can also down load actual data CSV, if you're even sadder than me and want to number crunch further).

The pink line is the tariff (7.5p 23:30 - 05:30 & 28p other times). You'll see car charging in the low tariff period. There is an "extra" low tariff dip where they must have had excess energy, and tried dumping it - send it my way

Just got an email from Octopus telling me that as the market price for night time elect has dropped, my rate will now be 7p.

Extra bonus was berating my partner, for her 11am cuppa, that shows up every day

Octopus Intelligent Go

GreenPaddy — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 08:44:53 +0100

Hmm - didn't attach. Not letting me :(

Octopus Intelligent Go

djh — Thu, 27 Jun 2024 10:20:57 +0100

Posted By: GreenPaddyHmm - didn't attach. Not letting me :(

Probably too big an image. You need to reduce it's size, but then it might not be very legible. Or post it on some file hosting site and put a link here.

Octopus Intelligent Go

GreenPaddy — Tue, 09 Jul 2024 18:06:48 +0100

reduced the PDF file size, Hope this works??

Octopus Intelligent Go

djh — Tue, 09 Jul 2024 20:36:06 +0100

Yes, that's very clear thanks.

Looking at the morning consumption figures had me very impressed - all zero! Then I looked at the cost figures and see that for one hour the consumption was 3 W and for another it was 2 W and for half an hour just 1 W. So does that really mean three phone chargers (or equivalent)? And do you really not have a fridge? Or freezer or anything else?

In short I don't understand what I'm looking at. I confess I don't worry about it too much, so I expect it's shamefully high and our house is all electric, but our standby current is more like 200 W.

Octopus Intelligent Go

revor — Wed, 10 Jul 2024 08:00:13 +0100

Posted By: djhLooking at the morning consumption figures had me very impressed - all zero! Then I looked at the cost figures and see that for one hour the consumption was 3 W and for another it was 2 W and for half an hour just 1 W. So does that really mean three phone chargers (or equivalent)? And do you really not have a fridge? Or freezer or anything else?

Our statement would show something similar but we have a battery and that will supply the load when no solar. My inverter app will show the load under background use of about 200 w and you can see it cycle as appliances come on and off.
Last month we only used 5kwh for the house and 41kwh at night rate for the EV. The battery is invaluable for shifting the load. Now I can charge battery at cheap rate overnight it will be very useful wintertime to effectively use the cheap night rate during the day via the battery. Saw an ad for 30kw battery (Fogstar) the other day for only a little more than what I paid for 10kw 3yrs ago albeit not of same quality but nevertheless they are now getting much more affordable.

Octopus Intelligent Go

GreenPaddy — Wed, 10 Jul 2024 08:15:51 +0100

I've solar PV, hence the low or zero day time grid import. I suspect a January report would look quite different. The point was to give people an idea of the sort of info that would be forthcoming from Octopus, and that there could be peace of mind about the cost allocation being transparent - which was my initial concern.

Interestingly, there are sometimes other 7.5p tariff periods during the day, which pop up, in addition to the contractual 6 hours at night, when I guess they need to dump excess power - something WiA has mentioned previously.

Octopus Intelligent Go

revor — Wed, 10 Jul 2024 09:30:29 +0100

Posted By: GreenPaddyInterestingly, there are sometimes other 7.5p tariff periods during the day, which pop up, in addition to the contractual 6 hours at night, when I guess they need to dump excess power - something WiA has mentioned previously.

Guess that is Octopus flux a new tariff.

Quote Octopus

Octopus Flux is an import and export tariff optimised to give you the best rates for consuming and selling your energy and support the grid during peak periods.

I have a friend on that tariff and he can choose when to charge and discharge his battery so gets the best rate for import and export. Obviously makes on it says he thinks about 5 years to pay back. I think the stand alone new battery combos allow you to do that and is ideal if you cant have or don't want solar.

Octopus Intelligent Go

GreenPaddy — Wed, 28 Aug 2024 09:22:21 +0100

Quick update - another excellent aspect of this Oct Int Go tariff

The (hopefully) attached snap of one of the daily charts of the my billing from Octopus, shows the 30 minute elect usage, and also the stepped line being the price per kWh.

My tariff contract says I pay 7p from 23:30 to 05:30, then 24p rest of the time. But I often get a lot more time at the lower rate. This chart shows this ocurring, with additional low rate after 05:30. I left my car plugged in, requesting a charge during the low rate the following night (as I wasn't using it). Octopus chose to part charge it at the low rate during the day.

I realise this helps Octopus with their purchasing rates, but I find it incredible how well the system works, when some suppleirs can't even get bills correct at a fixed price, once every 6 months.

I also received a mssg from Octopus to ask if I would charge my car on Aug 26 but NOT on Aug 27. As a reward they'll give me my Aug 26 charge at half price. I realise this is quite a crude load levelling tool, and that I prob saved less than £2, bit I guess it was them trialing how responsive the public might be.

Shows what can be achieved, if the right individuals, in charge, are appropriately motivated.

Octopus Intelligent Go

GreenPaddy — Wed, 28 Aug 2024 09:30:57 +0100

maybe attached now??

Octopus Intelligent Go

WillInAberdeen — Wed, 28 Aug 2024 11:35:16 +0100

For background, Mon Aug 26th was a windy summer public holiday in England, so there was less load expected than on the following day, Tue Aug 27.

They have been doing lots of experiments to find how much £ incentive is needed to persuade people to shift load by a few hours, looks like this is about incentives needed to shift load by a whole day!

Looks like £2 was sufficient in this experiment, and on another thread it was reported that £1.60 was insufficient, so that's two data points already...

The last few weeks, electricity has been cheaper or even free in the afternoons because lots of PV on the grid (including imported PV from sunny parts of Europe). Hence the extra daytime charging slots, strange it was until 0830 not 1330, maybe they experiment on different customers at different times?!

Octopus Intelligent Go

revor — Thu, 29 Aug 2024 15:04:26 +0100

Posted By: GreenPaddyI also received a mssg from Octopus to ask if I would charge my car on Aug 26 but NOT on Aug 27. As a reward they'll give me my Aug 26 charge at half price. I realise this is quite a crude load levelling tool, and that I prob saved less than £2, bit I guess it was them trialing how responsive the public might be.

I had same message but I did not have enough room to make it worthwhile. I would have save 46p. And also when I plug anything it it will draw from the solar battery 1st which means have to turn of my system at around 11:30 pm otherwise will have empty battery in morning and not efficient use charging battery from a battery.

A bit off topic but related to cheap electricity I have a small veg business and sell at the gate. Most of my usage is Jan to March where I have propagators running Had pleasant surprise from octopus offering me a new tariff 2p less than paying now and NO standing charge. No SC will make a big difference. Starts in October only condition I cant change tariffs for a year