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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthormattjcates
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2024
     
    I am converting my loft with the following build up: 50mm ventilation gap, mineral wool between rafters then pir then vcl.
    I am considering whether to use a 25mm service void for wiring to speed up installation and reduce the number of times the vcl is punctured. I am installing an mvhr.
    I would be grateful for some views on the pros and cons of putting some insulation in the service void and if I do go down this route what material would be best.
    Thanks!
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2024
     
    A service void is a good idea. Insulation in the service void is generally a good idea and I would use some rockwool or similar. Be sure to derate any electrical cables that run in the service void (i.e. use larger cables than would otherwise be required).

    Where will the MVHR ducts run?
    • CommentAuthormattjcates
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2024
     
    Thanks, my preference is mineral wool but I'm not sure how well the will friction fit between battens on the flat ceiling sections. I reckon a polyester roll would fit better but not so good on fire rating..

    The ducts will go between joists and in the eaves. The eaves will be insulated at roof level but it's not going to be cost effective to make the eaves airtight so we will tape around the duct entry points to the living space at the ashlar walls
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJun 10th 2024
     
    Posted By: mattjcatesmy preference is mineral wool but I'm not sure how well the will friction fit between battens on the flat ceiling sections
    It won't friction fit - it's soft. You'll have to push it into place with the plasterboard unless you hold it temporarily with some threads or muslin or suchlike.

    I don't understand the point of insulation if the space is not airtight? I'd use insulated ducts in the space. FWIW, BTW, Siga Rissan is very good for sealing around ducts & pipes etc.
    • CommentAuthormattjcates
    • CommentTimeJun 11th 2024
     
    thanks, I have friction fitted thicker rockwool "flexislabs" overhead before but 25mm may not be as easy as 140mm..
    It's a good point about the eaves, it's something I have been wondering about also so will start a separate thread
    • CommentAuthorsgt_woulds
    • CommentTimeJun 11th 2024
     
    Insulation at the rafters is pointless without airtightness. What purpose does the insulation serve? Will this be a regularly used space?

    Otherwise, why not just improve the the ceiling insulation and insulate the MVHR ductwork, it will be cheaper, easier, and more effective.

    Have you considered decrement delay? The insulation you propose will do next to nothing for keeping the loft cooler in summer.

    If you are using PIR will foil backing do you need an additional VCL? Just tape and seal the edges of the boards and fabric junctions.

    Do you have eaves and ridge ventilation?

    What state is the roof felt in?
    • CommentAuthormattjcates
    • CommentTimeJun 11th 2024
     
    thanks, the eaves space won't be used. there is ventilation at the eaves via soffit vents and the ridge is ventilated. the roof sarking felt is in reasonable condition.
    I'm keen to extend some insulation to the top of the cavity wall to prevent thermal bridging here (whilst maintaining the 50mm air gap above).
    I will be using mineral wool between and above the roof floor joists in the eaves and to cover the MVHR ducting.
    It won't take much more mineral wool to extend the insulation between rafters down to the eaves and I had thought this would provide some additional acoustic benefit (close to main road) and might help a bit with keeping the eaves warmer in winter and colder in summer (with less heat loss through the ashlar walls and from the ceiling in the living area below). I could just focus on insulating the loft floor and ashlar walls but given it won't be much more work to do the whole roof I thought it would be worth it but perhaps not!
    • CommentAuthorCliff Pope
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2024
     
    What's a service void? A dumb waiter with ropes, passing over a large wheel at the top of the shaft, for hauling up hot food from the kitchen?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJun 12th 2024
     
    A service void is a narrow space behind the surface material (e.g. plasterboard) that is used to run services such as electric cables. The space is usually created by using thin battens in front of the insulation/membrane/whatever.
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2024
     
    Hi mattjcates,

    what is your proposed detail at the point where the VCL drops vertically down the face of the joist hangers, which form the dwarf walls (what you're calling ashlar), and then passes the joists to meet the ceiling?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2024
     
    I always worry about and often find that service voids are unintentionally draughty being connected all be it accidentally to outdoor air, even from inside a floor void etc
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2024
     
    Given that the service void is inside the vapour/airtighness membrane/layer specifically to avoid penetrations of said layer, I have difficulty imagining any such accidental circumstances. There'd be an immediate failure when the airtightness test was done anyway.
    • CommentAuthormattjcates
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2024
     
    Hi Greenpaddy, that's a good question and one I discussed with my builder yesterday. I think the better solution will in fact be to fix the membrane on the eaves side of the steel to the flat ceiling. That way we can avoid all the posi joists and hangers and just have to tape around the old ceiling joists.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJun 13th 2024
     
    I'm thoroughly confused. I think a picture/diagram would help a lot.
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