Home  5  Books  5  GBEzine  5  News  5  HelpDesk  5  Register  5  GreenBuilding.co.uk
Not signed in (Sign In)

Categories



Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

Buy individually or both books together. Delivery is free!


powered by Surfing Waves




Vanilla 1.0.3 is a product of Lussumo. More Information: Documentation, Community Support.

Welcome to new Forum Visitors
Join the forum now and benefit from discussions with thousands of other green building fans and discounts on Green Building Press publications: Apply now.




    • CommentAuthorHuwblut
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2024
     
    Morning all

    The ceilings are down on my little bungalow renovation and I’m thinking hard about how to re insulate them. I think the electrician would appreciate it if we’re all gone while he’s working from underneath.


    Previous posts recommended a fluffy product of some description. I’ve seen this advertised on marketplace local to me for £30 per roll : Rockwool Therma insulation roll 100/200. Any opinions please?

    Question is there something similar / less expensive & possibly less itchy out there?

    I’m keen to reuse the existing stuff despite it being a horrible job to remove, store and re install. Seems a shame to send it landfill.

    Suggestions greatly appreciated

    Huw
    • CommentAuthorowlman
    • CommentTimeJun 19th 2024
     
    Whenever I've done awkward between rafters/joists esp. from underneath I've used Rockwool batts, in one form or another. You're able to cut them fairly accurately and hence jam them between the timbers and they stay there unlike the " Fluffy Stuff ".:smile:
  1.  
    Posted By: owlmanWhenever I've done awkward between rafters/joists esp. from underneath I've used Rockwool batts, in one form or another. You're able to cut them fairly accurately and hence jam them between the timbers and they stay there unlike the " Fluffy Stuff ".http:///newforum/extensions/Vanillacons/smilies/standard/smile.gif" alt=":smile:" title=":smile:" >

    +1
    However fluffy stuff is usually cheaper than batts. If your ceilings are down can you wait with the insulation until the ceilings are back and then put fluffy stuff on top. You are unlikely to get a good enough U value by stuffing either fluff or batts between the rafters, more will be needed over the top (Minimum recommended loft insulation for UK is 270mm)

    If you are rewiring then it is better to have any wiring in the loft above the insulation or de-rate the wiring to allow for the insulation (reduce the size of the MCB or increase the diameter of the cable). Your electrician should know about this and best to discuss your insulation plans with them to avoid issues later.

    In your position I would put the ceilings back and then put fluff between the joists and more layers over laid so that the joins do not coincide.

    Rockwool or equivalent is (much) less of an irritant than glass wool.

    edit to say if you are relying on eaves ventilation for the loft don't block the flow with insulation.
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2024
     
    Hi,

    I always spec Kanuf earth wool, as it's the least itchy of any wool. As PiH above, run cabbles above the insulation top level. I always get my sparks to clip cables at 500mm above the ceiling level, onto rafters/trusses, and then there's just single vert drops to lights or into stud walls. That keeps the cables mostly above the insulation, which I usually lay 3 layers of 140/150.

    If there's space, I also run some "cat walks" from the hatch to each gable end, by adding some short lengths of 4x2 horizontally, and fixing any leftover sarking/flooring boards, to give paths to crawl for access, over the insulation. Otherwise, any future access will tramp over and wreck the loft insulation.
    • CommentAuthorHuwblut
    • CommentTimeJun 20th 2024
     
    Morning

    Thanks for the information. It's a it of an odd set up...There's some makeshift rooms in the attic so adding insulation from above isn't mostly feasible.

    Appreciate that insulating the floor / ceiling isn't usually enough but the rooms above are plaster boarded and insulated with foam boards of some kind so it's mot just a plain attic. There's two small radiators up there as well which are turned down to almost off and 3 small Velux windows which can be left open a tiny but for air movement.

    If i run my hand between the Celotex and the roof there appears to be a gap so I'm hopeful that if I don't stuff the wool too tight to the eaves then there'll be air movement there too.

    'll start pricing up Knauf Earth Wool and will have a chat with the electrician about keeping the cables on top or above the insulation.

    Appreciate your help!
  2.  
    Posted By: GreenPaddyThat keeps the cables mostly above the insulation, which I usually lay 3 layers of 140/150.

    But dropping cable through insulation also requires derating

    Table 4.5 - Derating factors (CI) for cables up to 10mm² in cross-sectional
    ---------------- area buried in thermal insulation.
    Length in insulation (mm) Derating factor (CI)
    50mm 0.89
    100mm 0.81
    200mm 0.68
    400mm 0.55
    500 or more 0.50
    • CommentAuthorGreenPaddy
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2024
     
    Don't think I suggested de-rating was not required, though worth pointing out for others reading this. Burying cables usually results in future contractors throwing the insulation about, to find what they are looking for, and rarely replaced, certainly not properly. This forum spends a lot of time discussing the minutiae of thermal improvements, which pale into insignificance, if loft insulation is moved and not replaced. If cables are visible, makes life a lot simpler. It's no more work to clip to rafters than to clip to joists.
  3.  
    Posted By: GreenPaddyDon't think I suggested de-rating was not required,

    I don't think you were either but

    Posted By: GreenPaddyworth pointing out for others reading this.

    it often forgotten that when there is a substantial amount of loft insulation the drop down cables through the insulation can warrant derating according to the above table (either derate the cable or up the diameter)

    And too often I have suffered contractors either stamping all over insulation or throwing it to one side never to be fitted back properly.

    Having a walk way the length of the loft above the insulation is worth the effort.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeJun 21st 2024
     
    I'm still happy we don't have a loft :bigsmile:
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeAug 18th 2024
     
    All the non-itchy products are more expensive, but the Knauf stuff is indeed quite nice and pretty cheap. you can pay a smidge more and get better U-values too. The recycled PET stuff (Thermafleece supersoft) is very comfy and maybe 30% more expensive.

    There are lots of good natural products too (hemp batts, blown woodfibre, cellulose) but you'll generally pay about 3 times the price of glasswool.
Add your comments

    Username Password
  • Format comments as
 
   
The Ecobuilding Buzz
Site Map    |   Home    |   View Cart    |   Pressroom   |   Business   |   Links   
Logout    

© Green Building Press