Hello, we obtained planning permission for small extension and refurb works in April and no mention was made of bat roosting. We had already had a preliminary bat survey which showed no current activity but some evidence historically so recommended a further two surveys.

Where do we stand on what we actually have to do? I'm pretty comfortable we don't have bats in the loft spaces, but I'm aware that it's an offence to disturb roosting bats, and our works involves vaulting ceilings.

There are 2 layers of control that can apply here:
1. Conditions on your planning permission
2. Protected Species legislation

They each have different implications for non-compliance.
is there any mention in the paperwork of a requirement to obtain a Bat licence from Natural England to do the work?
It doesn’t sound like it.

This is our application https://www.bathnes.gov.uk/webforms/planning/details.html?refval=24%2F00515%2FFUL#documents_Section. No mention of bat surveys in the decision notice. I mentioned this to the bat surveyor and he seemed to think it was an oversight on the council's part.

When the surveyor was at our house, he said that the bat droppings were likely old (there were barely any - I feel confident we don't have bats), but he said he would need to do the further surveys to check.

I've been involved with a number of bat and eco surveys (no expert by any means), and those were due to requirements set out by the planners. Whether you have surveys that show bats or show no bats, or if you don't get surveys done all...the process upon disovery of bats is always the same - stop, get the bat licenced practitioner onto site, and have the bats relocated.

If the planners have not requested it, and I had no reasonable evidence of recent bat activity, personally I would proceed with the work, caustiously at the slate/tile removal stage, which would likey be a few hours worth, and have batperson on call with a mountable batbox for that day.

In reality, it would probably be cheaper to pay batperson to be on site for that half day, rather than pay for the bat surveys (initial them nighttime) that may or may not find anything. Why that is not an option from planners I don't know (ie. assume there are bats, pay for batperson to be on site, and forego the initial surveys).

Irrespective of the added value or otherwise of these surveys, they cost ÂŁ000's, and the planners just tick the box to request them (bat, eco, contamination, etc), as it's no problem/cost for them.

I’ve had a look at your planning documents and there is no requirement to do anything in terms of bat surveys.
So that is 1. Dealt with.
2. The requirements under protected species legislation is to not “knowingly or recklessly” disturb or destroy a bat roost.
So you know that there isn’t one there and you will be careful doing the work.

Are you re-roofing as part of the works? If there is evidence of previous occupation then they could come back in the future.

The use of a bituminous felt is the recommended approach when roofing to ensure no potential trapping of the bats and to protect the structure. My experience is that bituminous membranes stand up against pigeon guano better than breather membranes, and this should hold true for Bat doings too.

Of course, bituminous felt is non-breathable and not ideal for the building fabric. Creating a fully vented cavity below the felt can solve the breathability issues but you also need to vent this at the eaves, and ridge which is not straightforward when trying to ensure that bats can’t access this space.

You could use TLX ‘Bat Safe’ breathable membrane as an alternative to Bitumen F1, but I’d be guided by the bat experts on this. I remember speaking to someone on a job a few years ago and they were critical of the testing procedures being used to validate the membranes. This is not a fault of TLX, more that it is hard to test without using real bats!

Hopefully, they’ve resolved any issues by now, and certainly, you wouldn’t want to use a standard breather membrane - I’ve stripped it off a roof where it was killing bats that got tangled in the threads and it was a sad sight.

I've worked on 3 sites with Bat experts, two of them were pragmatic and helpful - we just carefully stripped the roof back looking for fresh evidence of bats. Good days and good banter - it was clear they just wanted to conserve bats, not hold up our job. The other one, well, let's just say there was no banter that day! That was the roof with the trapped bats though, so perhaps her awkwardness was understandable...

Thanks so much for all the input here. The plot has thickened in the last day or so. Unfortunately, after forwarding our planning consent to the bat person, he has got in touch with the council directly, and advised that there is evidence of bats at our dwelling.

This has provoked a strong email from the council out of the blue which states:

"t has come to our attention that evidence of bats have been found in the building and that this was not disclosed to the LPA at the time of the application. Notwithstanding that this matter has not be addressed through the usual planning process, the data indicating the presence of bats at the property and its likely use for roosting cannot be ignored and there is a real risk of works unlawfully impact upon bats or their roosts.

In order for you to avoid the risk of breaching the legislation, I can advise you that the correct course of action would be to engage a suitably qualified ecologist/bat worker to undertake further emergence/roosting surveys of the property to establish the type and number of bats present. Following this you may need to apply for an appropriate bat licence from Natural England.

It is illegal to disturb a bat roost without the correct Natural England licence."

I'm honestly a bit flabbergasted by this. I would have at least expected to have a conversation with the bat person before effectively telling the council that we're not going to do the right thing. We've always wanted to do just that - the right thing, but without doing anything unnecessary in the process. We're new to the whole process and feeling our way through somewhat.

Needless to say when we do require some input from an ecologist we won't be contacting the same person again which is a shame for both of us.

There's some crossed wires somewhere. Your survey says there's no current activity and LA say there's bat's present??

If you got it in writing that there's no current activity, you need to share that with the LA and ask the ecologist why they're changing their story

Well that’s certainly opened a can of worms. If you use Facebook, there’s a group on there something like “uk bat workers”
It’s a closed group but i got in by saying i was looking to do work on an old agricultural property and wanted to get an understanding of bat related things.
If you get in have a good read and get an understanding of how many of the batty minds work. It’ll be an eye opener.
Then go onto your local planning portal and search through looking for other applications that had an ecologist input, read the reports and pick your contractor from those. There’s a very obvious difference in how such things are handled in my area.
Fortunately my council was very pragmatic and in the interest of saving the building the ecology aspect was considered unnecessary on the basis that there would be no real excavations on site and any work on the roof was to be done on a minimal repair basis.
Saved me a fortune, an initial enquiry to an ecologist came up with - initial survey followed by 5 emergence surveys requiring a minimum of 3 observers ( this done from a street view photo) , then a newt and sloworm survey- for which they estimated 5k and if I didn’t book it in asap it was unlikely they’d be able to do it that year.

In the nearly 5 years i’ve been here, the only evidence of bats was next doors cat bringing one home one night. When you start talking about them , many people have experiences of bats, but won’t say anything for fear of effectively blighting their homes as a result of a bat using it as a temporary roost for a day or two.

Good luck sorting it all out, be mindful that the bat survey season runs ( may-september iirc) and many ecologists are booked up well in advance, don’t be surprised if you struggle to get anything done this year without paying a “premium”.

Well meaning legislation that has grown many arms and legs once it became something signed off by councils that don’t have to pay and a “dedicated” private sector that implements policy.