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General: First Floor Reinstatement - Type and insulate?

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  1.  
    For new flooring on first floor (18mm) would you go with P5 or OSB? We may also put the 18mm T&G Canadian maple back in but not too sure, we're going to cost up the 3 options in terms of materials, labour and reclamation

    Would you insulate between joists also while the boards are up or not bother as the whole house will work as one anyway?

    We have decided against underfloor heating and will opt for a radiator instead
  2.  
    Looking at some older threads, I think OSB3 would be the best option with 45mm screws and D4 glue on the joists? leaving a 10mm gap around the perimeter of the room...
  3.  
    Rockwool between the joists is an opportunity for reducing sound transmission
  4.  
    Is rockwool actually decent for sound transmission? I thought it doesn't make much difference in the grand scheme of things?
  5.  
    Lately I have been going 20mm thick solid oak floorboards with tongue and groove, secret screwed. I have just had a look at the website and the price has gone up again, so getting expensive now. (Peak Oak)

    Floor in the new upstairs bathroom in the farmhouse
    Part of the upstairs hallway (bought enough to do it all)
    The whole of the upstairs in the barn conversion
    The upstairs in the last place that we did (stone cottage)
  6.  
    I believe 100mm Rockwool does something
  7.  
    I put it inbetween the joists in the new upstairs bathroom (kitchen below)
  8.  
    Also put 100mm Rockwool upstairs between the joists in the barn, but we also have UFH upstairs in there. For even more soundproofing in the utility room, we used resilient bars in the ceiling (and even more rockwool)
    Because the GSHP is in there and the MVHR
  9.  
    Having said that, I didn’t put any Rockwool in between the hallway joists in the farmhouse. That could be because we are contemplating removing the plasterboard ceiling in the dining room below (nice beam in the middle of the room that could be exposed)
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 5th 2024
     
    Be sure to use the wool produced for sound insulation rather than the stuff intended for thermal insulation. It is heavier and more absorbent. We also hung the ceiling plasterboard from resilient bars - double layers of plasterboard is an alternative, I think. Not being able to listen to everything upstairs is nice.
    • CommentAuthorArtiglio
    • CommentTimeAug 6th 2024
     
    A totally empty void will be awful for sound transmission in standard platerboard makeups, especially if you have hard flooring upstairs. I generally try to use RW45 type batts , makes a big difference, no where near silent but really deadens the sound. Well worth the effort and expense.
  12.  
    We won't be taking any more flooring up in the property and as a family home I'm sure we can probably live with it.

    So you suggest going for acoustic insulation? Full thickness of the joist (8") or overkill?

    Thanks
    • CommentAuthorArtiglio
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2024
     
    My understanding is that maintaining an air space is beneficial. My approach has been 100mm of well fitted. RWA45
    ( rockwool acoustic 45 ( the 45 iirc is the weight per m3)) or similar. If you wanted further improvements then as mentioned above resilient bars and heavier plasterboard/double boarding. But you’re dealing with impact and airborne sound transmission, so need to take into account floor finishes etc and how the effects of flanking transmission kick in.
    I’ve flats, one block 1870 conversion other a 2000’s new build. Sound is an ever recurring issue with tenants, more so as time passes and expectations rise both in terms of what tenants feel they can do in their flats and the quiet they expect when it suits them.
    They’ll never be quiet to the extent many want these days. To do so i’d guess you’ll need solid floors, suspended ceilings and acoustic floor coverings and wet plastered walls.
    Obviously in your own home behaviours are very different and you can ensure the kids wear headphones when gaming ( the bane of my life at one time was a family whose teenage boy insisted on playing the latest “murder death kill shoot em up” at full volume in the early hours.)
  14.  
    My understanding is also 100mm of well fitted rockwool acoustic, at or near the top (i.e. close to or touching the underside of the floorboards). But I am not an expert, can't remember where I heard this. It's what I have done.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2024
     
    A space above or below the insulation is useful. Resilient bars automatically create a space, which is helpful. They all help with transmitted noise but impact noise is more problematic. We have carpets with thick underlay in the common areas to reduce footfall noise. Hard floors, especially rigidly fixed to the structure, are the worst when it comes to impact noise.
  16.  
    Posted By: Artiglio( the bane of my life at one time was a family whose teenage boy insisted on playing the latest “murder death kill shoot em up” at full volume in the early hours.)

    My rental contracts have an 'anti social behaviour' clause which essentially says they can't do anything that annoys the neighbours and another clause that says breach of contract is grounds for terminating the contract and eviction. Over here you are not allowed to evict tenants during the heating season (October to March) unless it is for breach of contract.

    Re noise - I had a brick wall between 2 flats that was allowing too much noise through, the fix was 5 cm high density rockwool then 5 cm normal rockwool then a single layer of fire resistant plaster board (for the weight and density rather than the fire resistance). Problem fixed. Apparently the varying densities through the layers give better results than a single density sound proofing.
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 7th 2024
     
    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryApparently the varying densities through the layers give better results than a single density sound proofing.
    I was going to say much the same thing.
  18.  
    I had also heard that abut the varying densities. Probably read it on here!
  19.  
    Does anyone have any standard detail sheets by any chance?
    • CommentAuthorArtiglio
    • CommentTimeAug 8th 2024
     
    PIH- my tenancy agreements are the same, but enforcement is another thing altogether. The court system here is very slow and if a tenant refuses to go you’re in the realms of bailiffs etc, i’ve never had to go the legal route. I just ask them to leave and keep doing so till they go, in this case the father was pretty reasonable but the kid did what he wanted when dad was out. They eventually moved on.
    The floor construction in thos building

    22mm chipboard, 15mm plasterboard, 20mm high density rockwool, 18mm sterling board, 9” joist (150mm lightweight rockwool between), resilient bars, 2x 15mm plasterboard.

    So long as the floors are carpeted and not laminate flooring , transmission through the floor is negligible in day to day living.
    The problem in that building is that the external walls are 7 newton concrete blocks that were dot and dabbed for plasterboard, they should have had a continuous ribbon of adhesive top and bottom of the sheets, ( i’m pretty sure they don’t. But wasn’t there to check at the time) if i were to do it again i’d go for a parge coat or just wet plaster the walls.

    Victorianeco - Lafarge used to have documents for tested and approved systems ( it was one of theirs i used) , i seem to recall it being called the “white book” , but i may well be mixing things up.Sorry it was British Gypsum

    https://www.british-gypsum.com/specification/white-book-specification-selector/white-book-overview

    20m years since i looked at it so much will likely have changed
  21.  
    Website looks good but nothing really applicable for 'retrofit' all seems to be for new build
  22.  
    So for 8" joists, I'm thinking

    100mm standard rockwool insulation
    50mm sound insulation
    50mm gap

    I have no particular reasoning for this buildup but it accommodates standard size material?

    Anyone have a better preference?
  23.  
    Looking back in the white book and realising this isn't a brand new build or a high end detail project this is my own home,

    I'm thinking just 100mm sound insulation and a 100mm gap? Coupled with new osb boards I think it's going to be more than sufficient for my own home without overthinking...
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTimeAug 24th 2024
     
    Posted By: VictorianecoI'm thinking just 100mm sound insulation and a 100mm gap? Coupled with new osb boards I think it's going to be more than sufficient for my own home without overthinking...
    That's what we have, except for the resilient bars as well. It's pretty quiet. I can hear the baby elephant (SWMBO) tramping about upstairs sometimes,but that's about it. Caberfloor plus carpet on top of the joists.

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