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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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  1.  
    I am thinking of putting the windows in the EWI insulation layer during a renovation. What materials can be used for the box mounted to the wall to carry the windows, soft wood, OSB3 or what? Is there a generic drawing showing the details?
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2024
     
    I've ended up doing it like these, depending on whether 100 or 150 EWI - tho in this case it's EWI applied to a newbuild timber frame.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2024 edited
     
    Having the 35x35 standoff batten, which the frame is fixed to, allows the stud to be buried deeper into the insulation, away from reveal air both inboard and outboard. Haven't done a Therm on it but am sure it's good for thermal bridging.

    As the members are so beefy (compared to say a 12 ply 'picture frame') it's easier to seal the corners of the 'picture frame' airtight, ditto airtightness around the window frame, which can be done by expanding seal strip in the gap, or a good wodge of mastic - part of my campaign to eliminate plastic membranes and sticky tapes.

    If you imagine an extg masonry wall instead of the inboard stud wall, then prob 200 EWI, can do similar by screwing a 'picture frame' of say 70x50 to the masonry, similarly buried away from the reveal, with same 35x35 standoff batten.
  2.  
    I did the plywood box option:

    24mm marine ply coated externally and endgrain sealed with CPES clear penetrating epoxy sealant (probably the most toxic thing I used on my project, but apparently used regularly on boat decking to get a good watertight finish). Taped back to the structure on all sides using a Pro Clima tape (Extoseal Encors).

    The box was supported by 50mm battens in a 'picture frame' around the outside and ultimately connected back to our Larsen Truss cladding frame, but the windows were fine just supported in the plywood box for a while.


    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryIs there a generic drawing showing the details?


    Have you found the Retrofit Pattern book? Not something I've used myself, but it has a sectional drawing and some interesting facts and figures:

    https://retrofit.support/detail/73/
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 16th 2024
     
    I fix windows to the outside of the outside skin, frame slightly larger than the opening!
  3.  
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: tony</cite>I fix windows to the outside of the outside skin, frame slightly larger than the opening!</blockquote>
    This is what I was thinking to do.

    And it would seem that normal softwood 'picture frame' fixed to the brickwork will be acceptable
  4.  
    any pictures of this 'outside' outside and how to measure up?
  5.  
    I used marine ply. Echo Doubting Thomas' comment re sealing. Go 'overboard'! I thought we had it all done and dusted but still had some ingress issues - now predominantly sorted.
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeSep 14th 2024 edited
     
    For a masonry wall I prefer structural insulation over a timber box. So I've done it like this:
    http://www.wookware.org/house/retrofit/drawings/window-EWI-side-100.pdf
    Alma vert is a cheaper option than compacfoam in the UK/Ireland now.

    That looks like this: http://wookware.org/house/retrofit/pics/html/053-EWI-window-outboard.jpeg.html
    (XPS used in the non-structural gaps there which is fiddlier but cheaper :-)

    It's got better psi values than the wooden box. And you get 30mm more window for a given opening.
  6.  
    Posted By: Nick ParsonsI used marine ply.

    What is generally available here is what is described as water and boil proof Birch ply (which I presume is the equivalent to the UK WPB ply)
    Would there be any advantage to use this rather than normal building grade softwood
  7.  
    Posted By: Peter_in_HungaryWould there be any advantage to use this rather than normal building grade softwood


    I don't know about others but my triple-glazed passivhaus-certifed windows were probably the highest value element of building envelope, certainly in terms of what is exposed to the elements, so I just went for the best option I could find to hold them in place.

    Given that we initially had similar ingress issues to Nick Parsons on one window - in our case a cladding board was directing water behind the sill and through the window surround, I don't regret opting for timber that can handle getting wet without warping etc..
  8.  
    Posted By: wookeyFor a masonry wall I prefer structural insulation over a timber box. So I've done it like this:
    http://www.wookware.org/house/retrofit/drawings/window-EWI-side-100.pdf
    Alma vert is a cheaper option than compacfoam in the UK/Ireland now.

    That looks like this: http://wookware.org/house/retrofit/pics/html/053-EWI-window-outboard.jpeg.html
    (XPS used in the non-structural gaps there which is fiddlier but cheaper :-)

    It's got better psi values than the wooden box. And you get 30mm more window for a given opening.

    I looked at compacfoam here and the blurb describes it as 200 kg/m3 EPS which I presume would otherwise be known as EPS 200. or is there a difference?

    one of the demo youtube clips shows a piece about 70 mm square and about 90 cm long having a bead of silicon adhesive applied to the back and then fixed to a wall with 3 window fixing screws, a further 3 pieces similarly fixed to make a box then a window fitted into the box (with a gap at the sides presumably for squirty foam)
    With the box made the window was fitted with window fixing screws in to the compacfoam. The squirty foam was not shown.

    Not withstanding the picture in the link given above does the compacfoam need the insulation under and around the box to avoid sagging in the long term? i.e. does it rely on additional support from what surrounds it?

    Given that XPS here is also quoted as 200 grade would that perform the same or is there a substantial difference between compacfoam and XPS 200 in strength and structural performance?
  9.  
    Interesting questions Peter, I like Tony's idea of using correct straps/brackets. I think they'll be insulated enough not to worry.

    That brings me onto finishing the window in the EWI....

    1. Do you really need airtightness tape?

    2. What are the sizing guidelines if fitting the windows outside of the opening? Do you add 10mm to the openings for instance as opposed to deducting?

    3. Can you just fit the frame, seal up the perimeter to the brickwork with general sealant? Then fit the EWI, and seal that up with sealant prior to render system?

    4. What is the best method of a sill? Sit on top of the EWI after it's been fitted? EWI to the underside?

    The YouTube videos I've seen seem overkill, as surely you just want to seal the frame prior to EWI

    THANKS
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTime3 days ago
     
    Posted By: Victorianeco1. Do you really need airtightness tape?
    Fundamental question for you. Do you believe that airtightness is worthwhile?

    If not, there's no point asking your question. If so, then how you achieve airtightness is up to you - there are many different ways and airtightness tapes are just one. But equally general sealant is certainly not one of them.
  10.  
    I believe airtightness is worthwhile, but I cannot see why sealant wouldn't be? Don't forget it will then receive EPS boards, render and a final seal up? How is air going to get through that?
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTime2 days ago edited
     
    Because sealant doesn't stay sealed for long.

    edit to add: EPS isn't airtight. External render cracks.
  11.  
    So if you use EPS for EWI you're saying you also need to wrap it in an air tightness tape also? Hmmm
    •  
      CommentAuthordjh
    • CommentTime2 days ago
     
    Posted By: VictorianecoSo if you use EPS for EWI you're saying you also need to wrap it in an air tightness tape also? Hmmm
    No, I'm saying you need to think about an airtightness layer separately from your insulation, whatever it is. Please read some guidebooks.
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