I sort of hijacked SimonG's Solar PV thread http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=1858 to talk about fridges, but it was sort of relevant because I was making the point that you first might want to consider 'buying' energy savings, before looking at energy generation.

Anyway, it is a little off topic from actually building houses, but I was just going to continue the fridge talk here, rather than on Simon's thread.

Posted By: Ed Davies
I have a pretty ratty 20 year old fridge/freezer. Haven't replaced it yet mainly because I haven't decided in the context of future plans whether to have a single fridge/freezer or separate fridge and freezer. Anyway, measurements:

2005-11-06 12:05 to 2005-12-06 12:05 (720 hours) took 81.84 kWh. So that's an average of 114 W, 2.7 kWh/day, 996 kWh/year. That's £114 per year at my marginal electricity price. Gulp.

If the published figures on new fridges are even close to true then the payback for replacement on-grid would be five or six years. Off PV, payback would be many times over and immediate, obviously.

I just read a real world example of someone who metered their old fridge/freezer and found similar running costs. The replaced them with energy efficient separate models and the running costs were £13/year for the fridge and £18/year for the freezer.

I suspect my old freezer could be pretty inefficient, so I have just ordered myself an energy meter. Also had a quick search for freezers and again, like fridges, Miele seem to have high rated models that are well priced. Their A++ rated freezer, Miele F1365S claims 134kWh/year and retails for £360, but can often be found around £300, and I've actually just found it on sale somewhere for only £250.

I think the decision to scrap an inefficient appliance before it breaks will depend on two factors. First if the financial case is as strong as Ed's example then it is a no brainer. He'll save so much that even if some super-efficient chilling technology was developed in say 2015 he could scrap his 2008 technology and would still of been better off than keeping that old dinosaur running. Second factor is how much value you attach to being 'green', basically the environmental problem is driven from us not paying the true cost of the energy we use (we don't pay for that carbon in the air, the pollution that effects our health etc ..) - Some of Ed's 996kWh is oil burnt, oil that will never be replaced. Ed may attach a high 'price' to that, he might replace an appliance early (even without the financial incentive) to stop that waste.

And I just thought, there might be a further benefit from scrapping early. It'll drive the market of energy efficient models and incentivise manufacturers to make ever increasing improvements.

I was thinking about whether to replace my washing machine. Our household is due to expand by one in November and I'm going for washable nappies. Our wm is 8 years old and still going (can't believe it's 2008 already!) but I'm sure it will pack up eventually (probably just as we run out of nappies) and with the increased use it will get, I'm wondering whether financially it stacks up to replace it now?

a full freezer is much more efficient than an empty one, and the freezer cycles less often, as its core temperature is better retained by the stuff in it than fresh air.

why have a freezer full of stuff?

make stuff and freeze it - reduce shopping trips, and extend the season of seasonal produce

As an update, I got myself an electricity meter and have been running it on my old fridge (maybe nearly 10 years old). Over 3 days it is averaging just below 0.4kWh/day. Thats 146kWh/year which compares to a new A+ rated one of 117kWH (cheapest price £200), and a A++ rated at 84kWh (£300).

So not huge financial savings there, but not bad if you weigh up the eco benefits as well.

I will move onto my ratty old freezer and see how that fairs.

I avoid ironing whenever I can. Hoever. When I mentioned using terry nappies and not ironing, a horrified grandma (no relation!) told me that hot ironing terry nappies acted as a steriliser. I tried them for a while, and one thing I noticed was I could get through easily 5-8 terrys in the course of a day when I only used up to 3 disposables a day - because they absorb WAY more wee than terrys, - which also meant I washed less baby clothes too.

At the end of the day, i think potty training asap is the only greenest way.

There are compostable disposables - www.moltex.de ...

I've also heard some women claim they can 'tell' and can get their baby to assume the position in time. Can you imagine Katymac spending her days doing that!

In China the little boy babies go around with their willies hanging out. Extraordinary. Snowsuit but wedding tackle exposed to the elements. I thought it was a kudos thing - look, my child has a willy (which makes me / him better than you / her) but I was told it was to cut down on laundering (which frankly doesn't wash with me).

Actually. I do that! I'm washing as the bowl fills and I stop (turn tap off) when my hands start burning. Do the glasses first and rinse as you go. Save hottest dirtiest water for last and do the big greasy pans in it. (or leave to soak. . . . . usually)

Don't think we have one. It takes forever for the water to come through warm - even though the fire (and tank) is 6 steps away. The bath upstairs gets the hot water faster for some reason. I don't scald myself ( did it once by accident a few years ago - but under different circumstances) but thanks for your concern!

ironing anything makes me laugh!

But nappies that are only wet and not soiled don't need sterilising anyway.

Also if they're dried outside in the sunshine, (when it IS sunny!!) the uv from the sun is a natural non-polluting steriliser

I discovered today that my PC burns 17W even with the switch on the back of the PC in the off position. I know PC's consume power in standby but I thought at least this switch was equivalent to unpluging it.

thanks doctor , I wondered where I was going wrong!

So after metering my fridge for a whole week, the usage was 2.55kWh, so 133kWh/year. Only 16kWh more than an A+ rated, so I think I'll be keeping it for now.

Just moved the meter onto the freezer and things look less promising. It draws 14.5W when idle and 115W with the compressor running. I think that means 127kWh/year just on the idle.

Our twins would would crawl around on the lawn nappyless when the weather was right. Just have to watch out for the sun and number two's :-)

Finished 6 days of metering my freezer and its usage was 8.14kWh, so 1.35kWh/day or 495kWh/year. I will have to do some sums, but I am guessing it might be cost effective to replace.

Found this for £270 delivered:
Model: AEG A40230GT
Annual Energy: 164 Kwh
Capacity: 223 Litres
Power Failure Safe Storage: 53 Hours