Now that the major housbuilders seem to have shut up shop, is it time for massive government investment in council housing?

it would be nice if someone flooded the market with cheap , low energy consuming quality homes
it might put people off speculatiing , with what should be considered a stratigic resource,
for a while, so as the average jo and family could afford a roof over there heads without taking on
a debt there probably have to pass on to thier children

Force the developer to sell off some of there land banks so we can get some high quality homes
built , by housing associations , self build , co-ops etc

not sure about the council though,
round my area the best I could say about them is there sh*t

I heard on the radio, housing associations are starting to buy up some of the surplus flats that
are on the market , are they just baling out the developers and exposing themselves to risks?

I'm looking forward to a housing crash , bring it on

Jim

James, I wonder if the council are sh*t because all the best tradesmen have been riding on the Wimpatt gravy train? Now the train has come off the rails there are plenty of good tradesmen looking for work. If the govternment don't do something to kickstart the industry soon I believe we will see very hard times [perhaps even harder than the early ninetees] for a lot of people, not just the housing crash, which I agree is inevitable.

My comment regarding my local council was more generally about there ability to do anything
other than fiddle elections
I'm not sure if all the best tradesman are in the mass new build market
from contractors I know in that market, the developers drive down there profit margins to a level (2-3%)
were corner cutting is bound to happen, and a general attitude of let the next guy in get round it
prevails

If more people could get hold of building land , it would perhaps let the smaller quality
developer , develope
individuals , companies , organisations that rely on the quality of their last jobs for future work

I'm not sure if this could realisticly fill the gap left by the big boys though

I think more quality builds by housing associations to the levels you suggest is a good idea

Sorry James, misinterprited your initial post. Agree about the tradesmen, but anyway you look at it there is now an increasing number of fish in an ever dwindling pool of work. The good ones will get the work in most situations. If they are not good enough, then they could be forced to sit on a basic [or even advanced] course as a condition of employment.

I was'nt aware that they are all not for profit. Better edit that out.

It's a nice idea Mike, but I can't see the Government putting up the cash for any major project like house building. Basically there isn't the cash in the kitty.

If you want to see the fundementals of our economy start with this article that has just been posted on TOD.

http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/4188

You might pour a stiff drink first.

Posted By: biffvernonIt's a nice idea Mike, but I can't see the Government putting up the cash for any major project like house building. Basically there isn't the cash in the kitty.

If you want to see the fundementals of our economy start with this article that has just been posted on TOD.

http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/4188" rel="nofollow" >http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/4188

You might pour a stiff drink first.

Maybe later, I'm still depressed by your offering last night

the SE is over developed , but then the weathers much nicer down here

I think a lot of the new job created by the lastest building boom in the SE( London) have been filled with
eastern european migraint workers , i presume when the work runs dry there just move on to the next boom town/country

renovations got to be good , one street at a time , bring the whole area up

move civil service dept. etc to these areas for work

thought about gold but , will it really keep going up?
dropped a bit recently , due to people selling at the recent long target point

isn't it just as vunerable (slightly less) as all other comodities

if it all goes tits up , new zealand going to have to close its borders

This isn't really the place to start discussing the merits of gold and silver, other than to say it has been money for 5000 years and backed all currencies indirectly through the gold backed US dollar until 1971. The peak in the early 1980s in today's money would be $2400 and if we still recorded the inflation figures like we did in the 1970s (before they started buggering about with them) it would be over $6000. Currently about $900 largely due to suppression by the central banks and the gold cartel. They don't want gold and silver to rise because it undermines confidence in their paper.

You have to get into the mindset of treating gold as real money, a long term store of value that can't be corrupted and is no one else's liability, and see paper money depreciating against it. Sterling is heading for the fiat money graveyard along with all the others.

I don't want to hi-jack this topic by talking about gold. All the stuff I know about about precious metals I have got from this site:-

http://www.financialsense.com/fsn/main.html

Briefly, 5000 years of history has shown that governments cannot, ever, be trusted with the power to mint their own money without limit. It always ends in a hyperinflation and usually coincides with a some other collapse or catastrophe. When you start looking around you and thinking about it we are heading down the same old road (huge debts, Peak Oil, war in the Middle East, rising inflation etc). Gold and silver will be money again (we've only actually been off the dollar gold standard since 1971), there is no alternative that people can trust. There will be a panic to get out of fiat currency at some point and when that happens you have to own gold and silver and the stock of companies that produce it or you will be wiped out.

I don't see why housing associations are better, they're just at arms length so the debts don't go into the Government's books. I think a lot of the money that goes into these organisations gets swallowed up with admin and red tape.

I prefer self-build as a route to housing the less well off. Give them compulsary purchased plots at agricultural prices and provide working capital. The finished house can be mortgaged with the equity uplift covering the deposit (and a generous one at that). Could be aimed at council tenants who are in work (and hence can get a small mortgage to cover the build costs) a deserve a leg up. Would cost the state nothing, give the hard working poor some equity, teach them some useful building skills and free up a council house. The net effect would be an empty council house for someone on the waiting list at no cost, except to the land owner who has had his "hope value" snatched from him (but I'd rather see decent homes for workers than windfall profits for farmers and property speculators).

I'd like to resurrect this now that things have got worse.

I think Council Housing is the way forward.

I also wonder whether those whos houses are to be repossessed should have them bought by the government and rented back to tenants - in particular those who have arrangements with the banks the gov has a large stake in. I remember a friend of mine losing a flat in the last recession- It was auctioned for a fraction of its value at £4000 and he still has the original mortgage dept to this day. There must be a better way?

Thoughts anyone?

I'm not in favour of socializing the losses of irresponsible lenders and borrowers. Those who are financially unsound need to be liquidated and then start again, and those who are sound will buy the distressed assets. For example, those first time buyers who stood on the sidelines and saved their money while people were levering themselves up to the eyeballs can now come in and buy the repossessed property.

Why should these people, the renters, those with no mortgage and those who continue to struggle to make their payments bail out the defaulters through their taxes? As always, there is no such thing as a free lunch, somebody has to pay for the excesses and it should not be the general public many of whom took no part in this credit binge. That might sound harsh but it is the way a free market works. We all make mistakes and have to face the consequences.

The housing market needs to be left to find a bottom before the economy can recover. The faster the decline in prices the sooner it will happen and any intervention will just delay the necessary correction at massive cost. Taxpayers money should not be used to buy assets that are declining in price. Hopefully after all this is done, the Bank of England will be allowed to enforce some sensible lending standards on the banks so another speculative boom is not inflated.

Having said all that HMG is hell bent on doing the exact opposite so expect balloning deficits, higher taxes, double digit inflation and interest rates and a sterling crisis down the road just like the 1970s.