Green Building Forum - Does it cost more to Build Green? Sun, 03 May 2026 10:10:19 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2273#Comment_2273 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2273#Comment_2273 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:03:06 +0100 remashiach
Q: Designing a sustainable building may involve innovation and new technologies, discuss how these are likely to impact upon project costs and how effectively the architect can propose, monitor and manage costs at all stages of the work.

The essay is 5000 words, so i'll have to go in depth.

Cheers!]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2277#Comment_2277 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2277#Comment_2277 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:27:11 +0100 moogaloo
When renovating an existing project VAT is charged at 5% for any Renewable energy projects and 17.5 % for other work. I think new builds are 0% whatever?

There are some grants available for "green building". Less in england/wales and more in scotland.

Green Buildings running costs should be alot lower then their equivelants.

Some green directions don't cost more, such as underfloor heating should cost around the same as radiators, energy saving light bulbs are very little more than standard ones and some green building is supposed to be non optional on new builds such as ventalation, insulation etc.]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2279#Comment_2279 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2279#Comment_2279 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:25:49 +0100 Guest Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2280#Comment_2280 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2280#Comment_2280 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:57:50 +0100 Guest Not that it guarentees a deep green building but have a look at the Cyril Sweet/BRE Report "Putting a Price on Sustainability." The documents looks at the cost impact of targeting the various standards within BREEAM. Low energy standards like PassivHaus cost 10-15% more than the current UK bargin basement design. (You should be able to get hold of a copy if your Uni has TI-One-Stop or something like it.)

Please define "project costs" surely as an designer you should try and get the client to think about whole life costs. If you suceed in this then sustainable buildings can save (and even make) money rather than cost it.

Part 3 student, where are you based?]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2283#Comment_2283 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2283#Comment_2283 Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:33:55 +0100 LizM
RE: Cyrill Sweet, they have also produced a report on the costs of achieving the new Code for Sustainable Homes.]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2311#Comment_2311 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2311#Comment_2311 Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:06:14 +0100 remashiach "(discuss) how effectively the architect can propose, monitor and manage costs at all stages of the work".

(Studying in Portsmouth by the way)]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2312#Comment_2312 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2312#Comment_2312 Thu, 19 Apr 2007 10:30:29 +0100 Chris Wardle
Most of the energy reduction in use can be achieved through the design of the fabric of the building, its orientation, airtightness etc and these need not necessarily cost much more than conventional buildings. Another important source of savings is the removal of the need for a conventional heating system through super insulation, air tightness and heat recovery i.e. the savings on the heating system pay for the improvements to the building fabric which pay dividends in lower bills and emissions throughout the life of the building.]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2317#Comment_2317 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2317#Comment_2317 Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:48:59 +0100 remashiach
What do ya think?]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2318#Comment_2318 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2318#Comment_2318 Thu, 19 Apr 2007 15:31:44 +0100 Chris Wardle
I can only see some system for rationing CO2 emissions sorting this probem out. Then the end user will make sure the building is energy efficient before they rent or buy it because they won't want to fork out for the extra carbon credits to run the buildings. Developers will soon get the message when they have no customers or start having to slash the prices of their developments.]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2320#Comment_2320 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2320#Comment_2320 Thu, 19 Apr 2007 17:32:54 +0100 fostertom Posted By: remashiachWhat if the client is not the end user? Then surely he/she will not be as interested in the long-term-savings of building a sustainable building? All he/she will sees is the extra up-front extra cost for going green?The commercial property rental world has already seen attainable rent figures heavily affected by how 'green' an office building is, expressed (so far) as how its heating/cooling costs contribute to potential tenants' running costs. Many demolition decisions have resulted. Public building are now obliged (or soon will be?) to prominently display a certificate of energy efficiency, for all to see and judge. HIPs (Home Information Packs) incorporating an energy efficiency rating become compulsory on house sellers in July. EC is prosecuting UK for its failure to bring in a similar energy rating scheme for rented houses.

As fuel costs go through the roof (after Russia allowed the west one last winter of cheap-energy complacency - hear Putin's sabre begining to rattle now!), simultaneous with expected heating costs becoming declared info to any house buyer, watch The Mail's Personal Finance journos connect the two phenomena, watch house values begin to reflect their 'green-ness' (in terms of heating costs to begin with), and anticipate the galvanising effect that will have on the property market and upon Middle England's actions. Green-ness will have a spiraling positive value - the more ultra-green the better the energy rating, even extending to selling surplus energy back to the grid. A+++ houses will race ahead in value; properties incapable of modification to a good rating will eventually become unsaleable - another negative equity crisis. This value-divergence will apply, may even be accelerated, by the long-overdue crash (whether that comes as a traditional housing market crash, or as a general economic downturn).

So - good news and good pensions for those of us prepared to invest in A+++ energy ratings, even if the economy collapses!]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2331#Comment_2331 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2331#Comment_2331 Fri, 20 Apr 2007 08:35:12 +0100 remashiach
Nevertheless there will still be some who will only just measure up to building sustainable. Isn't it like Health and Safety? Yes, it's law but there are always those who just about make it. If it's more expensive to build green and the client is not minded in that way....... money talks louder no?

How does the use of new technologies affect extra fees presented to the client? Eg: Does the architect have to charge extra? I assume there are more specialist consultant fees as well because of the use of new technologies?]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2333#Comment_2333 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2333#Comment_2333 Fri, 20 Apr 2007 10:03:22 +0100 Chris Wardle
On the fees point, of course the more complicated a build is, for whatever reason, the more specialist knowledge you have to buy in and the higher the overall build costs (good advice can also save money as well remember). However, I refer to my earlier point about eco-minimalism i.e. most of the energy savings come from simple things like insulation, draft proofing, choice of materials and orientation for which expensive advice need not be sought (it is set out in black and white in numerous books for those would can be bothered to read them).

Sustainability is not really about technologies, although those who sell them would perhaps say otherwise. Energy consumption has risen relentless during the last 200 years as, through advances in technology, man has found new ways of using it. We will get some real benefits from more energy efficient technologies and renewable energy technologies, but fundamentally this is about doing with less energy. The route to this is a simpler, slower pace of life where we don't consume things we don't absolutely need, don't make unnecessary journeys, accept that it is colder in winter etc. We should consider the embodied energy in the technology we install and the alternative uses of the cash we invest e.g. what is the point of spending £3k on solar hot water if you are driving a Jag or taking regular low cost flights to a holiday home in France? Spend the cash on a more fuel efficient car and taking the train when you visit the Gite - a much better use of money to save energy.]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2340#Comment_2340 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2340#Comment_2340 Fri, 20 Apr 2007 13:16:54 +0100 remashiach Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2360#Comment_2360 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2360#Comment_2360 Fri, 20 Apr 2007 22:31:28 +0100 chuckey Frank]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2362#Comment_2362 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2362#Comment_2362 Fri, 20 Apr 2007 23:20:18 +0100 fostertom Posted By: chuckey"sustainable" - able to endure for a long time. Most buildings are sustainable other then mud hutsNo, that's about permanence/durability. A quarry and its structures in virgin forest, devastating local eco-structures, would be sustainable by that defintion.
I'd say: "sustainable" - the planet can live happily with this thing/this method for a long time. Few buildings are as sustainable as a mud hut.
Another definition - the planet is better off with this thing/this method (certainly environmentally, hopefully also socially, maybe also economically) than if nothing had been done - starting from the situation as it exists.

Posted By: chuckeyAs Architects are on a percentage of the project cost, is it in their interests to ensure the building costs fall below the clients budget limit?
Assuming this is cynically-inspired rhetoric, I'd ask would an Architect prefer to have a reputation for keeping building costs within budget, or one for overshooting budgets and demanding extra fees at the same time?]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2401#Comment_2401 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2401#Comment_2401 Sun, 22 Apr 2007 21:34:46 +0100 Guest
Is not what I said about the Architects fees correct? years ago I was tempted to hire an Architect, he wanted 15% of the project cost ( a rather small extension), a structural engineer did my drawings for a flat fee.

frank]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2410#Comment_2410 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2410#Comment_2410 Mon, 23 Apr 2007 10:41:18 +0100 remashiach
Another question: Is there such a thing as specialist "green" consultants that you can use for constructing a building? If so are they expensive?]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2414#Comment_2414 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2414#Comment_2414 Mon, 23 Apr 2007 13:32:49 +0100 Guest Architects can be on a percentage, but they don't have to be. The architect may use a percentage in the first instance in order to derive a fee, however, once this is done the client and architect could agree on a lump sum fee i.e. a guarenteed maximum price.
On the face of it this framework could be considered to establish clear boundaries for the architect to work within, however, one of the probelms faced by an architect is that clients aspirations often far out stip the budget. It is in this respect that you have to ask, should the architect design what the client wants or what they can afford? This is never an easy dilema to address.....thus ensues the bedate. Determining the right balance between aspriation and affordability is what the architect/ client relationship is all about. If the client is experience and well informed the debate is likely to be relatively short as the cost/quality issues will be well understood. With less inexperienced les informed clients some readjustment may (is likely ) to need to take place.

Mark]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2423#Comment_2423 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2423#Comment_2423 Mon, 23 Apr 2007 16:58:29 +0100 Emily
I'm also a third yr student. We had a lecture last week on enhanced capital allowances. I've looked into the scheme a little more since as I'm thinking of using it to offset development costs in my final design project. Not sure if anyone knows anymore and I'd be interested to find out further info, but the impression I get is that developers who retain the interest in the property can claim back 100% of the cost of any sustainable technologies (on a particular list, but including solar panels, rainwater harvesting, CHP units etc) from tax, within one tax year. If they don't retain the property, then the company which buys it can do the same, therefore the purchase price can go up accordingly. This is only for industrial or commercial buildings, although my lecturer did mention that it was possible to claim back for apartment blocks as well, as long as it was for the outer envelope, or technologies which were for communal areas.

Emily]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2424#Comment_2424 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2424#Comment_2424 Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:15:59 +0100 remashiach
Where u based emily?]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2425#Comment_2425 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2425#Comment_2425 Mon, 23 Apr 2007 18:24:23 +0100 Emily Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2445#Comment_2445 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2445#Comment_2445 Tue, 24 Apr 2007 13:58:33 +0100 remashiach Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2589#Comment_2589 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=2589#Comment_2589 Sun, 29 Apr 2007 11:38:36 +0100 Guest sort of heating I was beginning to get cold feet. Does it really work and is it cheaper to run? I live in Italy - the climate is warm but it still gets chilly in winter
with 5 metre ceilings ! I can't find any non-commercial comments and why does it need to cost more? Any comforting replies?]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=8690#Comment_8690 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=8690#Comment_8690 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 19:59:36 +0000 guyc Posted By: Chris WardleAnother important source of savings is the removal of the need for a conventional heating system through super insulation, air tightness and heat recovery i.e. the savings on the heating system pay for the improvements to the building fabric which pay dividends in lower bills and emissions throughout the life of the building.

Sorry to wake-up an old thread but this is particularly interesting.

Is the elimination of a main heating system achievable in the South-East of England with little or no extra capital expense? How would the building costs of a conventional new build be re-diverted? I guess most is going to wall/roof insulation and low U-Value windows.]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=8691#Comment_8691 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=8691#Comment_8691 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 20:12:29 +0000 fostertom http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=685&page=1

Summary of the key writings on the subject, from http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=770&page=1#Item_20:

http://www.primedesign.us/self_heating_houses/pahs_article_1.html - all you need to know, really, about John Hait's PAHS, the purist no-machinery concept
http://www.primedesign.us/self_heating_houses/self_heating_houses_files/frame.htm esp frame 18 of this Powerpoint by Engineer Joe Anderson
http://www.EinsteinCode.info to buy the ebook

http://www.greenershelter.org/index.php?pg=3 - all you need to know about Don Stephens' AGS, which judiciously uses machinery to make it work better, in more situations
http://www.greenershelter.org/TokyoPaper.pdf - ditto
http://www.greenershelter.org/index.php?pg=2 - comparison between PAHS and AGS

What do you think?]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=8698#Comment_8698 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=8698#Comment_8698 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 21:29:06 +0000 guyc
However AGS certainly looks interesting ...

http://www.greenershelter.org/images/GeoSolar3.jpg

Has anybody here actually tried it in the UK? What are the associated costs?]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=8699#Comment_8699 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=8699#Comment_8699 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:02:12 +0000 fostertom Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=8701#Comment_8701 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=8701#Comment_8701 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:18:47 +0000 guyc Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=8702#Comment_8702 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=8702#Comment_8702 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:24:57 +0000 tony

Once warm the house will be very very thermally stable taking more than three months to cool down so running out is not an option.]]> Does it cost more to Build Green? https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=8703#Comment_8703 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=204&Focus=8703#Comment_8703 Wed, 31 Oct 2007 22:32:04 +0000 guyc