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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthorstorm
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2008
     
    Admittedly, I cannot see any satisfactory solution to this problem Nor anyone,so far, whom I have approached on the subject, so I don't expect to be inundated with reples ! but anyway here goes.
    Our conservatory over loooks a particularly beautiful south facing view. ( No that's not the prob ! ):smile: We will be having new wooden double glazed doors. The present single glazed doors open outwards but unfortunately cannot open right back against the walls due to a rather wide slate window ledge and beneath this the base of the conservatory is made of large raised stone work . The only possible idea so far is to have the new doors fitted to extra long parliament hinges.( which will need to be custom made ) but these will jut out somewhat when the doors are closed and also the doors will be a bit wobbly on them due to their weight and the length of the hinges. Not partcularly impressed with slide patio doors for this application as this means one permanant fixed pane of glass . Tri fold doors was one option which fold to one side allowing for unobstruted view but they are very pricy. Maybe we should dispense with the bloomin doors altogether and allow the winter winds in as well as the summer breezes ! Now that's what I call really be bringing the outside in :shocked:
    •  
      CommentAuthorrogerwhit
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2008
     
    Big extension hinges (whether parliament or butt) with double glass etc doors will put a lot of stress on the screw fixings I feel. I'm not an engineer & don't know the extension you need, but think about 2 pr hinges PER DOOR & 5mm screws at least. Stagger the screw-holes in each hinge, don't have them in line.

    Is there room for a pair of sliders internally - no, I guess you don't want the doors to open in?

    You could have bi-fold (cheapest!), tri-fold, or quad-fold etc doors - I would guess that for bi-fold you might be adding some £300 to the cost, compared to having normal butt hinges.
    •  
      CommentAuthorrogerwhit
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2008
     
    (Folding doors can open either in, or out.)
    • CommentAuthorTheDoctor
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2008
     
    i just installed a set of double glazed folding sliding doors (three leaves)
    you can specify that they can open in, open out, to the left, to the right, or both.

    extra long parliament hinges may work for a single door (stresses and strains excepted) but as a pair of doors, they may struggle.
    draw out with a compass what happens to the free end of the door as it opens on an extra long hinge. the doors will ned to be special too, with a significant angle to where the doors butt against each other.
    • CommentAuthorGBP-Keith
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2008
     
    Screwfix sell washered brass parliament hinges and they are affordable. Pit three on each door.
    • CommentAuthorBowman
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2008
     
    Bifolds? with the first fold the width of the wall/sill, so two sets of hinges per door, though I suspect the parliaments hinges would be cheaper
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeSep 18th 2008
     
    Parliament hinges can be easily cut off or the pin tapped out and the door opened. The fix is to add steel pins near the mounting screws. Drill and tap one side of the hinge fit a bolt or machine screw with head removed. Drill matching hole in the other leaf of the hinge. Now when the door is closed the pins mate into the holes and the door can't be removed by cutting off the hinge.
    • CommentAuthorjoe.e
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2008
     
    Or, maybe easier, fit the security pins and matching plates that you can buy to the hinge edge of the door.
    • CommentAuthorstorm
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2008
     
    Parliament hinge or no parliament hinge ? That, is the question ...

    I'd love one of those bi-fold/ tri-fold doors. Does anyone know where I can get one for under £1000 ? Significantly under preferably :neutral: Someone is offering to make me two standard wooden double glazed doors plus a window inclusive of labour for just over £1000. By comparison these ready made tri fold doors, some starting a t £ 1700 just for a couple of doors, extortionate ! :sad:
    •  
      CommentAuthorrichy
    • CommentTimeSep 19th 2008
     
    I've seen Ancient Tee hinges, designed to assist with cleaning the out side of sashes from the inside. They have second hinge knuckle 100mm into the strap, that 100mm section isn't screwed to the opener in the normal way, it had a coach bolt and wingnut. Unbolting the wing nut meant that the opener pivotted on the second knuckle throwing the sash away from the fixed frame (allowing one to get ones arm between glass and the fixed frame). It seems to me that this set up with or without the wing nuts might provide a soloution on the few days when one can throw ones doors open to let the outside in.
    • CommentAuthorstorm
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2008
     
    Rogerwhit, Do you mean both doors sliding back along a track with no fixed pane ? This was something I had originally thought of, are such doors easy to acquire ? The lack of security with parliament hinges is a bit of a worry, though CWatters suggestion could well remedy this. Not sure about your suggestion , Richy, the ancient tee hinges. Sounds a little complex, also it might be a bit of a hassle each time the doors are opened.
    Thank you, Keith, for the info on the Screwfix hinges. However, from thier catalogue I note their parliament hinges are 152 mm - w Max. Measuring the measurments of my conservatory frame to the edge of the external window cill is just over 21 cm. I am still toying with the idea of having extra large frames installed so that they jut out a couple of inches beyond the rest of the conservatory. This way more secure smaller hinges can be used to open the doors right back. My idea has not been met with much enthusiasm though from the various builders/ carpenters I have discussed this with. They say the doors will stick out beyond the protection of the roof, but surely this can be remedied with an additional wooden structure above the doors ?
    • CommentAuthorTheDoctor
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2008
     
    Storm,

    it is very unlikely that you will get RELIABLE tri-fold doors under £1000.

    cheap ones are made from 'normal' doors with bolt-on ironmongery, rather than purpose-made units designed to take the eccentric loads etc.

    just thinking...
    If you are happy with a bifold or a trifold, then you are happy for the doors to not fold 180 degrees flat.
    Problem solved!
    bifolds etc tend to only open to 90 degrees, as they are captive in the track


    how about one big square door frame with a pivot hinge 1/3 from one end?
    very smart, and only one frame to door leaf joint to seal.
    •  
      CommentAuthorrogerwhit
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2008
     
    Storm, yes - a pair of slide-asides, using normal patio door gear - a lot cheaper than folding-sliding gear. But is there clearance there for them to operate?

    TheDoctor's pivot would be just as economical.

    I'm thinking made-to-measure in both cases for the joinery - the operating gear is available off the shelf though.
    • CommentAuthorEdK
    • CommentTimeSep 22nd 2008
     
    I had the same problem and didn't think that stnd parliment hinges would give me enough clearance. I bought a set of each (3" and 4") and mocked it up with some scrap wood at home.
    By carefully placing the frame I managed to be able to use 3" ones.

    Have a try - you may be surprised at the clearance range.

    I put 3 on each door - Eclipse ones. Be careful if you hang/sort out yourself as stainless steel screws have a very short torsion range before they snap off :)

    I bought the wood for mine (utile) and then got a mate to machine up the parts and put it together mostly myself (match board bottoms and glazed uppers)... total cost for both doors must have been about £300 for the wood, £80 for glass (dbl glz'd) and about £100 for hinges - but everything costs more over here....
    Cheers
    Ed
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