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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthorolihaden
    • CommentTimeOct 7th 2008 edited
     
    Hi,

    I'm a graduate building surveyor working for a multinational construction consultancy. As part of my induction I have to undertake a group research project on the above topic and produce a report based upon what we find. As graduates from different disciplines our knowledge in this area is relatively limited; does anyone have any contacts or information that may be of use to us? In particular we're interested in the views of other industry professionals, system manufacturers such as Honeywell etc., contractors, and any intelligent building users. Of course the ultimate goal is to explore how energy use can be optimised.

    To narrow it down, areas we've identified to research are as follows:

    Introduction – what are intelligent buildings?

    Advantages and disadvantages of intelligent buildings

    Applications – discussion of the uses in different building types and sectors/markets

    What can be achieved by implementing control systems and how they can optimise energy use – lighting, heating, cooling, access etc.

    Different platforms – BAC, LON and the compatibility between systems

    Political issues – regulations, CO2 emissions, social/corporate responsibilities, energy performance certificates, the effect of soaring energy costs, statistics

    Independent views on the topic – input from companies outside of the company such as Honeywell, along with other industry professionals such as architects

    Case studies – a review of successes, problem areas, issues encountered, value and results for the client. This can then link into other areas

    Client issues – cost – affordability, capex, opex/maintenance and upgrade costs, obsolescence, clients with large property portfolios; construction issues – design, installation and workmanship, operational reliability, programme delays, use for new-build and refurbishment schemes

    Development of a hypothetical building to illustrate the potential advantages/savings an intelligent building can produce


    Any pointers or help would be very much appreciated.

    Thanks,

    Oli
    • CommentAuthorDaveK
    • CommentTimeOct 7th 2008
     
    Hi Oli,

    Try googling "KNX".

    From the KNX association website - "the world’s only open STANDARD for all applications in home and building control, ranging from lighting and shutter control to various security systems, heating, ventilation, air conditioning, monitoring, alarming, water control, energy management, metering as well as household appliances, audio and lots more."

    I am currently installing this in my refurbishment. Not usually for the DIYer - installation software alone is around EUR900 and several days training would be needed as well - as a Control & Instrumentation Engineer I can install without the training.

    Very widespread throughout Europe but not yet taken off in the UK.

    Dave.
    • CommentAuthormike7
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2008
     
    How 'bout this fella:- http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/forum114/comments.php?DiscussionID=2684&page=1#Item_5
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeOct 8th 2008
     
    KNX is an interesting standard but the 'open' bit is not very open at all. To even read about it you need to buy the spec for 1000Euro (although in fact I found that my local library has ISO/BSI standards for free if you know where to look). As you say it is expensive to install, but the flexibility of one spec for wired and wireless is interesting.To make anything compatible with it you have to join the consortium at great expense. This is standards the old fashioned way, with patent pools,and trade bodies, like telecoms. I wouldn't mind except they make such a big thing of their 'openness'. This is not how Open in done these days.

    I really hope that some genuinely open technology can reach this historically very expensive area. Zigbee has a lot of promise but not much traction yet outside industrial control. 1-wire is currently very good and widely supported, although only single source for the sensors (check out opnode for a nice controller). Idranet I like, and is cheap, but also proprietary and only works with Windows/Delphi controllers. Z-wave is one (wireless) newly arrived from the US - not sure how open that is - not very. I do wonder if eventually we'll end up with IP-based systems as they are so ubiquitous and easy to integrate, and no-one is trying to charge for a cut on the protocols.

    The Webbrick people have got the right idea. Use cat5, open systems, a dedicated controller with interfaces from the web, your mobile phone, or your TV, and commodity control kit from lots of people. And encourage a development community. This is the way to make everything interoperate. It's still not very cheap, but it is competitive and has the least lock-in I've seen so far apart from 1-wire.
  1.  
    Where do you think this is going to go wookey / anyone? ie are we anywhere near a universal standard / market norm?
    • CommentAuthorwookey
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2008
     
    mrswhitecat. Not yet, no - it's a mess. I guess that's typical of an immature market. I'm not any real sort of expert, but started to take a look at this stuff this year for my own environmental control. I picked 1-wire as being quite cheap, widely supported and reasonably open. Most of the stuff that is being installed is still proprietary so you have to get everything from one manufacturer if you want it to talk (more or less), but that's not what people want - they want to be able to buy kit (alarm, solar, boiler, lights, fridge, TV etc) from anyone and have it talk to the network/controller. We're still quite some way from that - come back in 10yrs and see how it's doing.

    Don't know if we have any proper experts on here to opine...
    • CommentAuthorDaveK
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2008
     
    One of the reasons I went for KNX is the support from so many different manufacturers, including big names like ABB and Siemens. It's still at the install stage but so far have UFH valve actuators by Theben, room thermostats by GIRA and digital outputs by ABB. They have all integrated perfectly without any trouble at all. Another 'selling' point that helped make my decision was the distrubuted nature of the system. The programming is downloaded to each unit and there is no reliance on the other units if any fail or there is a problem with the bus. Obviously some units need to talk to each other, eg the room thermostats and the UFH controller, so the bus would need to be intact between these, but there is no reliance on any thing else. Another big plus is the power consumption; a few watts for each unit with no main controller. Drawbacks are obviously the cost and not really suited to programming by the DIYer as I previously mentioned unless only the very basics are needed.
    • CommentAuthorleemind
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2008
     
    This is all very good stuff. I'm in the planning process to convert a barn and have tried to read every relevant thread on this (and Navitrons) forum avidly. Whilst there are a 1000 decisions to be made, one of which I am very interested in is some sort of intelligent home setup (I'm also very interested in the whole Thermal Store debate, but I'll leave that to another thread)

    Also, this may not be for this forum as I'm really not sure of the green credentials here, but I had pretty much set my heart on C-Bus, until I found KNX. The C-Bus was niggling me a bit as it is only one manufacturer and they are in Australia, so KNX seems like a better choice. Howver I totally agree with wooky - It is about as open as an investment bankers wallet right now. I was really dismayed to see the price of the programming software, which makes post install tweaks none DIY-able (and I love to tweak!). Definitely more Windows than Linux.

    I think I'll go and google Webbrick & 1-wire!

    DaveK -- I take it you are very happy with your setup? Would love to hear more
    • CommentAuthorDaveK
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2008
     
    leemind,

    Like I've said, still at the install stage. Currently in the middle of the refurb of the house and insulation is half in as is the UFH, thermal store is in but not piped up, new boiler not yet fitted, cavity wall insulation not in, but have still found time to have a play on the bench with the KNX :). The UFH manifold and KNX actuators are installed and I got these up and running with modulating control in no time. I'm going to use the system to control the MHRV (change fan speeds when using bathroom and also using humidity sensors) and the solar when that's installed next year, lighting also, with presence detectors and dimmers. I'm hoping to integrate it with the AV system but haven't thought that far ahead yet. I work away from home alot so will also be installing motorised blinds for presence simulation.

    So far I'm very happy with it, worrying a little about how much integration with the AV setup there will be however. Although a total rip off at EUR900 for the software, in the grand scheme of things I've bitten the bullet and bought it. It does allow me to install over a period of time, spreading the cost of the components and adding things like control for the solar at a later date.

    If anyone has any experience with DALI or 1-10V lighting would love to hear from you. (Is the extra cost of DALI worth it for the home?)

    As for the green credentials, I think all new homes should be installed with some form of intelligent system. Automatically adjusting light levels to what is required, shutter control, MHRV, and precise control of temperatures throughout the home is a must.
    • CommentAuthorleemind
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2008
     
    DaveK,

    Thanks for that, you and I are thinking completely along the same lines. Please keep us uptodate with the progress :-) Have you considered using the presense detectors with a KNX security system? i.e. those detectors have multiple uses

    Regards
    • CommentAuthorDaveK
    • CommentTimeOct 10th 2008
     
    I've give security and fire some thought and this is the initial thinking:

    1. Security system will be KNX. ABB look to have some good gear for this (PIR, window/door contacts, glass break sensors, alarm boxes etc). Not sure yet if the PIR sensors will be seperate or integrated with those for the lighting (maybe a combination of both). I'll need to look at that further before deciding.

    2. Fire alarm will be a completely seperate system with a volt free contact to the KNX. On detection of fire MHRV will shutdown. There are KNX fire systems available but will be going for the more reliable and proven standard fire system.
    • CommentAuthorvisitor
    • CommentTimeOct 11th 2008
     
    I have found http://openremote.org/ to be highly informative.

    DaveK, are there any KNX LED lighting drivers?

    Cheers,
    Ivan
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