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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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    • CommentAuthorPoplar
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2008
     
    Can anyone advise where to find cost of Steel Beam??

    Person doing BReg drawings is suggesting we need an I beam 270 x 290 x 7900mm

    Is this going to be prohibitively expensive? Or prohibitively heavy to maneuver (?sp)

    A
  1.  
    Last time I bought steel of roughly that size it cost me about £100. It'll be heavy, so you'll need to think carefully about lifting it - a chain block at the very least.
    • CommentAuthorchuckey
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2008
     
    Thats a long, shallow beam! From my old "Structural Steelwork" by Reynolds & Kent, the nearest I section I could find was a 12 X12 at 65 lbs/ft or 10 X10 @ 49 Lbs/ft makes (8m = 27 ft) either 1755 or 1323 lbs. I hope you have had your spinach!
    Frank
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2008
     
    You ain't going to get that for a onner either.

    What is it for?
    • CommentAuthormattstan51
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2008
     
    seems a strange size, is probably similar to 305 x 305 which is 97kg/m!

    so nearly 800kg

    be very careful lifting it, frienmds have had theirs delivered in parts that bolt together to make moving them possible (not easy still though!)

    Matthew
    • CommentAuthorjon
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2008
     
    It's a very strange size. Which country are you in?
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2008
     
    Google suggests 290 x 268 might be available in some parts of the world.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2008
     
    At that weight it would make a good wrecking/demolition ball if not handled with care.
    •  
      CommentAuthorrogerwhit
    • CommentTimeNov 13th 2008
     
    If you want to cost a steel product you phone round steel suppliers (ever heard of yellow pages?).

    Easy. Quick. Brutal.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2008
     
    Heartbreaking too.
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2008
     
    Use a bit of wood instead. Greener.
    • CommentAuthorJulian
    • CommentTimeNov 15th 2008
     
    As Roger suggests it shouldn't be too difficult to get some prices. Local engineering firms will usually have experience of undertaking steelwork and are set up to make cuts, weld on plates and drillings. They can also sort out any galvanising that might be needed (probably not required here...).
    As to lifting it into position don't take any risks. It should be possible to hire something like this

    http://www.brandontoolhire.co.uk/lifting-hire/prodview.asp?idproduct=33

    or this

    http://www.brandontoolhire.co.uk/lifting-hire/prodview.asp?idproduct=32

    They can be used singly or in pairs and you should be able to get them delivered if needed.
  2.  
    It took 4 of us the other day to lift a I beam 220x200 4.6m long, I wouldnt want to lift anything much longer without machinery. You should be able to bolt 2 beams together to make that length.
    • CommentAuthormike548
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2008
     
    CommentAuthorbiffvernon CommentTime2 days ago quote
    Use a bit of wood instead. Greener.

    what size bit of wood would I need to support a wooden floor 12ft x 14 ft and is wood cheaper than steel these days?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 16th 2008
     
    why do you need a beam at all ?

    normal joists will do it
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2008
     
    Posted By: mike548what size bit of wood would I need to support a wooden floor 12ft x 14 ft and is wood cheaper than steel these days?
    At least 14ft long. Fortunately wood grows on trees that are quite tall so you don't need to bother with bolting 2 beams together to make the length, as bot de paille suggested. If it's too long you can cut it to size with a saw and use the leftover bit for heating or turn it into a lamp standard, book end, etc. None of this is so easy with steel.
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2008 edited
     
    Oh, you meant how thick? Long established practice is to think of a number and double it. The great thing about wooden beams is that the bigger they are the better they look.
    The room in which I am now sitting is 15ft wide. The floor above is of timber planking on joists supported by two oak beams about 6inches square spanning the 15ft. They've been there for 250 years so I guess they do the job.
    • CommentAuthorfuncrusher
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2008
     
    Finding out the cost of steel is the easy bit: ring any steel stockholder. The difficult and potentially expensive bit is getting such a monster in position - could well require a mobile crane etc, tho I have installed similar items 40 ft up with chain blocks. But the real question is why such a monster is reqd. The simple way to reduce cost is to reduce the span by providing a mid-supprt like a wall or pillar and thus two beams each much smaller sections. Another solution is to crate a truss-like support system, portal frame or a lattice type girder. Coulds be even DIY with cunning design.

    Without knowing the background however it is impossible to advise.
    • CommentAuthormike548
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2008
     
    CommentAuthortony CommentTime9 hours ago quote
    why do you need a beam at all ?

    normal joists will do it

    I intend raising a low ceiling 12" and would prefer wood . I imagine Oak will be expensive . Would softwood do?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2008
     
    Yes
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2008
     
    What is above it?
    • CommentAuthormike548
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2008
     
    it's a kitchen ceiling , above is a bedroom.
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2008
     
    For an oak beam 14 ft long and 6 inches square you might pay £60 plus or minus quite a bit depending on who you buy from. It would weigh less than a couple of bags of cement so could be handled by a couple of fit lads without hiring a mobile crane. Of course you could use softwood, but don't expect the same admiring looks at dinner parties.
  3.  
    Hi,

    Steel beams for example come in weight grades or classes so a 25 grade is 25 kg per meter length, a heavier beam might be a 46 which is 46 kg per meter and so forth. So for the various shapes they will all have this on them although obviously they are different cross sections.
    Thus a surveyor will simply tot up the linear lengths and times by each weight grade to get the overall weight.
    Not sure of up-to-date prices but less than £1000 a ton is good, greater well no so good.

    Hope this helps a bit

    Mike up North
    • CommentAuthorTheDoctor
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2008
     
    14' is asking a lot of a 6" x 6" oak beam, is it not?
    • CommentAuthormike548
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2008
     
    how about something fresh from the wood dressed up a shade with a chainsaw ie squared up a bit. I might have an Ash would do the trick. Need two though.Very rustic but still...
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2008
     
    Posted By: TheDoctor14' is asking a lot of a 6" x 6" oak beam, is it not?
    Ask what you like of it but it's still there above my head, where its been for 250 years, despite the best endeavours of the teenager who inhabited the room above.
    • CommentAuthorchuckey
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2008
     
    I have just put a new floor joist across my 4.2m wide barn, I used 9" X 2", C16 timber, interestingly NO deflection worth measuring with my 180lb weight hanging from it ( less then the thickness of a pencil line). I was comparing it with a 10" X 4" X 17' purlin I had removed from another building, - the purlin deflected by about 3mm, at 4.2 m apart supports. Thats why I bought the new wood. Just got to replace the other 13 joists now :cry:
    Can you not "hang" this beam from a structure in the loft? A trivial sized piece of steel can be used, like a piece of 1/4" rod to take a ton or so.
    Frank
    • CommentAuthorPoplar
    • CommentTimeNov 17th 2008
     
    Thanks to all for answering...

    See sketch for where the steel is going...

    The dimensions aren't completely accurate as I couldn't remember what the draughtsman said. But it is 8m long
      steel.jpg
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 18th 2008
     
    with no intermediate support?

    8m = twenty six feet in old money.
   
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