Green Building Forum - Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

biffvernon — Sat, 21 Feb 2009 20:38:50 +0000

Part of the answer was shown in the BBC 2 film A Farm for the Future. If you missed it on Friday evening you can see it on i-player: http://www.bbc.co.uk/dna/mbpointsofview/F1951566?thread=6345097

This really is an excellent programme and well worth watching. It was made by Rebecca Hoskins, famous for her plastic bag campaign.

Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

Joiner — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 13:19:03 +0000

The link you actually need is

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00hs8zp/Natural_World_20082009_A_Farm_for_the_Future/

I would disagree with Bif about it being "an excellent programme and well worth watching". It is, in fact a bloody excellent programme that should be compulsory viewing for everyone.

The film doesn't preach, it simply states it as it is.

Thank you for the link, Bif. We don't usually agree, but I'm with you on this.

Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

biffvernon — Sun, 22 Feb 2009 19:27:07 +0000

Oh yes, I put the wrong link. Sorry and thanks Joiner. That link takes you to the discussion on the Points of View message board.

There's a piece about the film and lengthy discussion on The Oil Drum at http://europe.theoildrum.com/node/5120

One of the permaculture places featured in the film is Tir Penrhos Isaf http://www.konsk.co.uk/index.htm . Click on 'Latest news and updates' for what Chris and Lyn Dixon have to say about the film.

Martin Crawford of the Agroforestry Reseach Trust http://www.agroforestry.co.uk/ writes about the programme on the Dartington website http://www.dartington.org/sustainability/the-agroforestry-research-trust-to-feature-on-bbc2s-natural-world.

Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

jamesingram — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 20:59:59 +0000

with regard to loss of energy supplied by oil and unlimited solar energy
did anybody watch this , and whats the thoughts on it as a solution to our energy requirements into the future
with unlimited energy supply , would high population still be a problem ?

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00hr6bk/b00hr5fr/Horizon_20082009_Can_We_Make_a_Star_on_Earth/

Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

ralphd — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:22:13 +0000

Posted By: JoinerThe link you actually need is

http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00hs8zp/Natural_World_20082009_A_Farm_for_the_Future/" >http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/b00hs8zp/Natural_World_20082009_A_Farm_for_the_Future/

I would disagree with Bif about it being "an excellent programme and well worth watching". It is, in fact a bloody excellent programme that should be compulsory viewing for everyone.

You first need to make it available to everyone.
"Currently BBC iPlayer TV programmes are available to play in the UK only"

-Ralph

Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

bot de paille — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 22:43:24 +0000

Ralph, suggest you use ip proxy hosting/masking so that it appears your IP is situated in the UK (or the US if you want to watch movies on Hulu :)

This is what I do to watch Iplayer stuff

Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

Joiner — Mon, 23 Feb 2009 23:47:32 +0000

OK. Compulsory viewing for everyone in the UK.

Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

Timber — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 13:27:58 +0000

James - I saw that too... and broadly agreed with what the chap was saying..

But we must still control the population.. more people, even with fusion, will still consume more than the planet has to offer.

Timber

Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

pmcc — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 14:44:18 +0000

Posted By: Timbermore people, even with fusion, will still consume more than the planet has to offer

Possibly so, although with effectively unlimited energy resources we could recycle all materials and grow or manufacture enough food. The problem would be when the population rises to levels where the total retrievable physical resources of the planet are insufficient. Eg, not enough rare earth metals to go round for devices which need catalysts, even with 100% recycling. We might even be able to degrade the biosphere to near-desert conditions across large tracts of the world and still survive comfortably in huge numbers.

Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

bot de paille — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 17:29:18 +0000

Posted By: pmcc
Possibly so, although with effectively unlimited energy resources we could recycle all materials and grow or manufacture enough food. The problem would be when the population rises to levels where the total retrievable physical resources of the planet are insufficient. Eg, not enough rare earth metals to go round for devices which need catalysts, even with 100% recycling. We might even be able to degrade the biosphere to near-desert conditions across large tracts of the world and still survive comfortably in huge numbers.

Wouldnt all that unlimited energy/heat creation cause......... global warming?

In the same way that the vast increase in energy use in the 20th century might help explain global temp increases

Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

fostertom — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 21:10:23 +0000

Posted By: bot de pailleIn the same way that the vast increase in energy use in the 20th century might help explain global temp increases

Current human un-natural conversion of chemical to heat energy then dumped on the planet's surface is about one 17,000th of daily solar input - so probably not too significant so far.

The effect of that human activity on the biosphere's temp is not because of the raw heat dumping, but because of its side-effect of increasing the emission of greenhouse gasses, which increases the equilibrium temp at which the solar-in/re-radiation-out balance stabilises.

Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

treviesweets — Tue, 24 Feb 2009 23:47:56 +0000

William McDonough - "How do we love all the children, of all species, for all time?"
Michael Braungart - "We are not too many, just stupid."
How about a hopeful vision for the future?

Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

fostertom — Wed, 25 Feb 2009 00:41:38 +0000

Posted By: treviesweetsHow about a hopeful vision for the future?

I've got one - what's yours?

Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

dieseldogg — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 15:47:26 +0100

Unlimited population growth
= NO room for wildlife
Now how green is that?

Is world population growth the elephant in the room?

James Norton — Wed, 24 Jun 2009 16:08:08 +0100

...we now have pigs, elephants and seals all on the front page....

J