I have been researching kitchens and a number of the designers suggest using green MDF instead of natural wood as they say it is more resistant to kitchen environments. Apparantly solid wood tends to move and ultimately crack over the years and green MDF is more durable. As kitchens are so expensive, I want to get it right, so any comments would be helpful.

is it green mdf because it is green, or because it is green?

Nor is is water stable -- just less unstable than normal MDF -- dont use MDF in wet environments -- (or at all)

If the green refers to environmental credentials, i belive that 'green' mdf uses much much much less formaldahyde glue, and so is less damaging to the environment and people.

Timber

See http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2348

Take a look at

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium-density_fibreboard

http://www.bhma.co.uk/mdf-aboard-p-555.html

http://www.timbmet.com/ImageLibrary/mdf.pdf

The last link is particularly useful.

I used the 'waterproof' mdf on a kitchen I built in a barn conversion in Cheshire. Because it was some distance from home and because the customer (actually a friend at the outset, but no longer since she screwed me for a lot of money) kept changing her mind I cut most of the panels on site, in the open. I bought the mdf from the local builder's merchants and the only stuff they had in was 'waterproof mdf'. Never heard of the stuff but as it was only marginally more expensive I took five boards of that. It weighs a ton, it's also EXTREMELY sharp at the edges - don't do what I did and let the board slip through your hands onto the floor! Anyway, I'd cut a number of door blanks and was busy inside when I realised it was pi**ing it down - stair rod stuff. I despaired of the mdf stood against the wall of the garage and the one board laid across the trestles and mentally written off the circular saw. The rain stopped as quickly as it had started and I ran across to salvage what I could of the sodden mess I was expecting to find. I just wiped the boards dry, shook the saw off - it's magic stuff. It takes a moulding like nothing else. The only thing working against mdf (and the environmental issue is no longer such an issue since the methods of manufacture have improved) is snobbery. I once had the temerity to suggest to a customer that as she wanted to paint her kitchen a light shade of blue and stencil it that she use mdf - I later learnt from one of her friends that she proudly shows off her blue "French oak" kitchen! Takes all sorts.

MDF - a soul-less material if ever there was one - the natural 'feel-good factor of the source material, wood, has been pulverised to bits in a violent industrial process. Plus, unless it is a formaldehyde-free variety, off-gassing will occur, & the more regulated your ventilation becomes, maybe the more important that is?

Tectan board , made from milk cartons http://www.tectan.de/english/home_engl.htm and other intertesting things at http://www.kingston.ac.uk/~kx19789/rematerialise/html_and_flash/index-application-board.htm

Oh, I thought Roger's comment spot on. It's the conscious-aesthetic-precious approach that marks out the Green. In Kitchens, mdf just does not have the same charcter as a bit of reclaimed two century old timber, cleaned and with a bit of olive oil rubbed in. And it's more expensive.

One redeeming feature of manufactured boards is that they make use of waste wood. Does anybody know whether these products do actually comprise only waste wood or is good timber pulverised to bits in a violent industrial process, as Roger implies, as well?

Repair, reuse, recycle but don't destroy historic fabric.

What about the natural carcinogenic formaldehyde content of timber? that's part of the formaldehyde content of MDF. Medite largely relies on this, plus making it up to a similarly large quantity with (I think) polyurethane binder. Same for no-added-formaldehyde particle boards (chipboard, OSB) and ply. They're all full of binder, just more so than natural timber. No such thing as npn-formaldehyde timber or timber products.

just for the record, i have not bought the kitchen yet - so I am hopefully still welcome on this website. I am still figuring out what I want and the purpose of the discussion was simply to ask why the joiner thought MDF was better in certain instances than solid oak.

Just reading several of the discussions, I have noticed that with Green issues there are certainly many interpretations of what is right and not-so-right. Like dieting, I aim to be good 80% of the time.

In my experience, green mdf has usually only been claimed to be 'moisture resistant' rather than waterproof. Surely though, youre going to use some sort of panel for the carcases, and mdf is easier to finish and greener than many varieties of ply and blockboard- birch ply is popular though I know, and probably greener.
Solid timber carcases, if that's what the anti-mdf faction is proposing, is going a bit far i think. (I have done it, and that's what i thought.)
How about melamine covered mdf? wouldn't the melamine stop off-gassing, or at least slow it down?
solid timber worktops, cabinet fronts, doors, cabinet ends, absolutely right. lovely in reclaimed timber, if you can find a joiner who's got sawblades and planer blades to throw away...

"simply to ask why the joiner thought MDF was better in certain instances than solid oak."

The short answer is it's cheaper.

As I explained earlier, using a solid timber of any description for a kitchen doesn't make economic sense if you're going to paint it. I've only ever made three mdf kitchens and one of those had pine framing to mdf panels. Two of the kitchens were painted to allow stencilling, one was simply painted and incorporated Jali panels behind glass (not my idea, the customer saw a Jali panel in the back of my van and her imagination went wild – the end result looked like a Turkish brothel and I asked her not to tell anyone I’d done it). MDF is stable and takes a fine moulding. It requires some finishing to get a good finish but if wire-wooled between coats (especially on the edges) it can look very good indeed. As far as I know, no one has contracted cancer or any other dread disease from any of those kitchens.

All other kitchens have been in oak.

For the record, to me, painting an oak kitchen is sacrilegious and I refuse to do it. Just a personal thing.

And Imogen, can I respectfully suggest you move your enquiry to the ebuild forum to avoid upsetting so many people?

And nice one, Tom.

I found this link researching the potential new markets for a genuine green mdf which would be available at a similar price to conventional board. This mdf would be made at a small capacity plant located in a heavily forested region in Europe to minimise transport of the raw material. The wood fibre for the panels would be from forestry wood waste and therefore not involve any additional cutting of virgin timber. It also locks up the carbon in the wood waste which would otherwise be burnt to the atmosphere. The resin used in the panels will be a natural resin based on rape seed oil- therefore creating a zero formaldehyde board with the same performance characteristics as Medite ZF. Transport from the production site to distribution centres will be by rail and to the UK and further afield by rail and sea. The real key to getting people to chose the green alternatives is to make them price competitive and we believe with the use of waste wood we can produce a genuinely green mdf for the same price as a conventioanl board. Any takers?