Green Building Forum - Kitchens - made of green MDF? Mon, 06 Sep 2010 14:50:27 +0100 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44263#Comment_44263 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44263#Comment_44263 Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:42:20 +0000 Imogen Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44268#Comment_44268 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44268#Comment_44268 Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:55:26 +0000 StuartB Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44271#Comment_44271 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44271#Comment_44271 Thu, 22 Jan 2009 13:59:15 +0000 TheDoctor Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44274#Comment_44274 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44274#Comment_44274 Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:02:59 +0000 Davipon ]]> Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44276#Comment_44276 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44276#Comment_44276 Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:06:50 +0000 tony Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44278#Comment_44278 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44278#Comment_44278 Thu, 22 Jan 2009 14:12:22 +0000 Davipon Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44294#Comment_44294 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44294#Comment_44294 Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:19:15 +0000 Timber
Timber]]> Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44295#Comment_44295 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44295#Comment_44295 Thu, 22 Jan 2009 19:51:51 +0000 Nick Parsons Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44301#Comment_44301 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44301#Comment_44301 Thu, 22 Jan 2009 20:29:40 +0000 fostertom http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=2348]]> Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44313#Comment_44313 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44313#Comment_44313 Thu, 22 Jan 2009 21:40:12 +0000 rogerwhit Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44351#Comment_44351 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44351#Comment_44351 Fri, 23 Jan 2009 11:38:47 +0000 Joiner
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Medium-density_fibreboard

http://www.bhma.co.uk/mdf-aboard-p-555.html

http://www.timbmet.com/ImageLibrary/mdf.pdf

The last link is particularly useful.

I used the 'waterproof' mdf on a kitchen I built in a barn conversion in Cheshire. Because it was some distance from home and because the customer (actually a friend at the outset, but no longer since she screwed me for a lot of money) kept changing her mind I cut most of the panels on site, in the open. I bought the mdf from the local builder's merchants and the only stuff they had in was 'waterproof mdf'. Never heard of the stuff but as it was only marginally more expensive I took five boards of that. It weighs a ton, it's also EXTREMELY sharp at the edges - don't do what I did and let the board slip through your hands onto the floor! Anyway, I'd cut a number of door blanks and was busy inside when I realised it was pi**ing it down - stair rod stuff. I despaired of the mdf stood against the wall of the garage and the one board laid across the trestles and mentally written off the circular saw. The rain stopped as quickly as it had started and I ran across to salvage what I could of the sodden mess I was expecting to find. I just wiped the boards dry, shook the saw off - it's magic stuff. It takes a moulding like nothing else. The only thing working against mdf (and the environmental issue is no longer such an issue since the methods of manufacture have improved) is snobbery. I once had the temerity to suggest to a customer that as she wanted to paint her kitchen a light shade of blue and stencil it that she use mdf - I later learnt from one of her friends that she proudly shows off her blue "French oak" kitchen! Takes all sorts.]]> Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44420#Comment_44420 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44420#Comment_44420 Fri, 23 Jan 2009 19:35:12 +0000 chuckey Frank]]> Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44426#Comment_44426 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44426#Comment_44426 Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:42:43 +0000 rogerwhit Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44430#Comment_44430 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44430#Comment_44430 Fri, 23 Jan 2009 20:56:08 +0000 Imogen Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44433#Comment_44433 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44433#Comment_44433 Fri, 23 Jan 2009 21:11:02 +0000 fostertom http://www.tectan.de/english/home_engl.htm and other intertesting things at http://www.kingston.ac.uk/~kx19789/rematerialise/html_and_flash/index-application-board.htm]]> Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44467#Comment_44467 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44467#Comment_44467 Sat, 24 Jan 2009 09:05:43 +0000 Joiner
It's a pity there isn't a scheme like the one that assists owners of Listed buildings and properties in Conservation Areas to "do the job properly". The grant schemes in operation there acknowledge the extra cost of "doing it right". I'd think that the premium attaching to that approach won't be far off an extra 25% (the Historic Buildings grant actually pays up to 25%), and I don't think I'd get many people on this forum arguing against that (albeit ad hoc) figure as the extra cost of "going green". There is a partial acknowledement of that in the subsidies paid for insulation, and also in the grants available from local authority Environment Departments for property improvements - although paying for the installation of upvc double-glazed replacement windows might save energy, the implied legitimising of upvc products is environmentally questionable, to say the least. But that's another issue for another string.]]> Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44563#Comment_44563 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44563#Comment_44563 Sun, 25 Jan 2009 08:41:40 +0000 biffvernon
One redeeming feature of manufactured boards is that they make use of waste wood. Does anybody know whether these products do actually comprise only waste wood or is good timber pulverised to bits in a violent industrial process, as Roger implies, as well?]]> Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44566#Comment_44566 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44566#Comment_44566 Sun, 25 Jan 2009 09:10:39 +0000 Joiner I have used "Neata panels", green MDF with "bead and butt" mouldings, so it looks "old". It seems to be very damp and temperature tolerant. I would not rate it as very "green", but then again I can't afford real oak panelling. There are some health and safety concerns about the very fine dust from it when machining it. On the whole, a cheap material with a lot going for it.
Frank "

"Imogen
I knew if I mentioned MDF on this website it would cause "issues". But seriously, this is really helpful stuff. I want to be green, but it's just sooo damned cheap I cannot resist using it. Just kidding, I will research more thoroughly before committing to anything. "

Problem with using reclaimed two century old timber is that it could be seen as encouraging the destruction of an old building to satisfy the demands of the architectural salvage industry. Apparently not good for conservation I was reliably informed two years ago.]]> Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44584#Comment_44584 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44584#Comment_44584 Sun, 25 Jan 2009 12:55:15 +0000 biffvernon Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44631#Comment_44631 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44631#Comment_44631 Sun, 25 Jan 2009 21:06:49 +0000 rogerwhit
".. formaldehyde is a known animal carcinogen and a probable human carcinogen, according to the World Health Organisation (WHO). As a constituent of internal fixtures or finishes, it can off-gas inside a building where the amounts may be small, but the exposure can be long term and constant. It is a major source of indoor VOC emissions."

".. burning can produce harmful (toxic) gases If dumped on a landfill site, the timber will biodegrade but the constituents of the glues will remain in the ecosystem. Leached binders from wood-based panels may contaminate underground water; biological degradation leads to the formation of methane which contributes to the "Green-House-Effect" about 30 times more than carbon dioxide."

Virgin timber has been (is) used in mdf manufacture, but sometimes a recycled element is incorporated - the technology changes over time.]]> Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44696#Comment_44696 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44696#Comment_44696 Mon, 26 Jan 2009 13:26:24 +0000 fostertom Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44702#Comment_44702 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=44702#Comment_44702 Mon, 26 Jan 2009 14:01:46 +0000 biffvernon Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=45897#Comment_45897 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=45897#Comment_45897 Tue, 03 Feb 2009 15:17:00 +0000 Imogen
Just reading several of the discussions, I have noticed that with Green issues there are certainly many interpretations of what is right and not-so-right. Like dieting, I aim to be good 80% of the time.]]> Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=45900#Comment_45900 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=45900#Comment_45900 Tue, 03 Feb 2009 15:34:35 +0000 StuartB Posted By: ImogenLike dieting, I aim to be good 80% of the time.

Imogen - I like that approach! It's impossible to be good 100% of the time, not to mention boring!:devil:]]> Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=46037#Comment_46037 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=46037#Comment_46037 Tue, 03 Feb 2009 21:43:52 +0000 paul.dixon27 Solid timber carcases, if that's what the anti-mdf faction is proposing, is going a bit far i think. (I have done it, and that's what i thought.)
How about melamine covered mdf? wouldn't the melamine stop off-gassing, or at least slow it down?
solid timber worktops, cabinet fronts, doors, cabinet ends, absolutely right. lovely in reclaimed timber, if you can find a joiner who's got sawblades and planer blades to throw away...]]> Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=46042#Comment_46042 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=46042#Comment_46042 Tue, 03 Feb 2009 22:12:01 +0000 fostertom Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=46404#Comment_46404 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=46404#Comment_46404 Thu, 05 Feb 2009 16:29:46 +0000 Joiner
The short answer is it's cheaper.

As I explained earlier, using a solid timber of any description for a kitchen doesn't make economic sense if you're going to paint it. I've only ever made three mdf kitchens and one of those had pine framing to mdf panels. Two of the kitchens were painted to allow stencilling, one was simply painted and incorporated Jali panels behind glass (not my idea, the customer saw a Jali panel in the back of my van and her imagination went wild – the end result looked like a Turkish brothel and I asked her not to tell anyone I’d done it). MDF is stable and takes a fine moulding. It requires some finishing to get a good finish but if wire-wooled between coats (especially on the edges) it can look very good indeed. As far as I know, no one has contracted cancer or any other dread disease from any of those kitchens.

All other kitchens have been in oak.

For the record, to me, painting an oak kitchen is sacrilegious and I refuse to do it. Just a personal thing.

And Imogen, can I respectfully suggest you move your enquiry to the ebuild forum to avoid upsetting so many people?

And nice one, Tom.]]> Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=54186#Comment_54186 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=54186#Comment_54186 Thu, 14 May 2009 18:24:17 +0100 visitor Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=64014#Comment_64014 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=64014#Comment_64014 Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:23:26 +0100 Xanthe Kitchens - made of green MDF? http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=64029#Comment_64029 http://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=3361&Focus=64029#Comment_64029 Wed, 14 Oct 2009 12:22:07 +0100 fostertom Posted By: XantheI found this link
Posted By: Xanthewe can produce
Come clean, declare your interest, then discussion can continue without the usual anti-commercial posturing.]]>