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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
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Housing - New Build: Timber cladding

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  1.  
    Anyone got an opinion on the best timber type for cladding a building? I'm after some for an extension and want something durable, which ages well but doesn't break the bank. Cladding will be fixed vertically.
    •  
      CommentAuthornigel
    • CommentTimeJul 2nd 2007
     
    Larch is good, chestnut better but more expensive.
    Cedar looks good but is expensive and of questionable sustainability depending on its source.
  3.  
    Is larch cheaper than cedar then? Does it require any treatment and, if not, how does it weather over time? Can anyone recommend any suppliers? I'm based in Belper, Derbyshire.
  4.  
    Chris,

    If you are in no rush whatever (!), we might get some larch in the solar kiln....


    Nick
    • CommentAuthorOliver
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2007
     
    I'm also currently specifying some timber cladding and wondered if anyone had an opinion as to whether using either Larch or chestnut in a horizontal application (eg: a flat roof application with a max 20:1 fall for rain water) in plank (t&G?) form would also be advisable? one more than the other? I'm just thinking they're bound to be exposed to much more intensive soaking in this application than in wall cladding which has the advantge of gravity assisted run-off, will they hold up as well? Is there any other easily accesible wood someone would reccomend? Thanks.
  6.  
    Oliver,

    Pretty sure CAT have larch roofs round the top of the 'railway'. Try their info dept.

    Nick
    • CommentAuthorOliver
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2007
     
    Thanks Nick, they're getting back to me.
    • CommentAuthorBluemoon
    • CommentTimeJul 3rd 2007
     
    Shouldn't timber walls of any sort be protected by a generous roof overhang?
    •  
      CommentAuthorKieran
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2007
     
    There is a very good discussion document on timber cladding available free from Highland Birchwoods. It talks in depth on detailing, selecting and installing timber cladding, it is called "Timber Cladding in Scotland" (but also applies to the rest of the UK) Available from the "publications" section of their website:
    http://www.highlandbirchwoods.co.uk/

    After reading it I think the key issue is where you get it from. I have come to the conclusion that either home grown Larch or home grown Oak would be the best compromise between cost, durability, environmental issues and quality for me. All depends on what you want though.

    Oliver, T+G boards outside are a bad idea, other profiles are possible but you must detail for movement in the wood (which t+g doesn't accommodate).
    •  
      CommentAuthorKieran
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2007
     
    Chris Wardle. to answer your question - avoid the use of treatments - they will just wash out anyway (or if not be very toxic) instead specify a durable timber. The 3 cost bands in the above document (in 2001) were
    expensive 20-35 pounds/sqm
    medium 10-15 pounds/sqm
    cheap 5-7 pounds/sqm
    (page 49)
    • CommentAuthorOliver
    • CommentTimeJul 4th 2007
     
    Kieran,

    I'm for some reason unable to download the pdf on the highlandbirchwoods site, something to do wth an un repairable damaged file..? Is there any chance you could put it on the forum or email it to me directly?
    cheers.

    if no t+g I imagine square cut is best? how much spacing between vertical pieces is advised on Larch heartwood cladding? circa. 3mm I imagine?

    Also, re: the decking/flat roof application of Larch boards, i've found someone who had leftovers from a garden shed and lay them as decking 5 years ago, and apart from a slight colour washing out they're still holding up fine.
  12.  
    Hi Kieran,

    T & G, can be spaced and usually is, are their other reasons that make it a bad Idea to use it outside.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKieran
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2007
     
    Oliver

    Attached file (I hope!)
    It might be you need to get the latest version of pdf viewer? It donloaded fine for me.
    In terms of joints there is a profile burried in this doucment with is basically a lapped joint with 5mm gaps that allows you to 'close' the gaps between the wood. This would be better in exposed conditions rtaher than having square cut boards (cutting down on horizontal rain ingress). That said I'm going for square sawn because I like how it looks.

    Rimu homes I was just responding on first principles, there is no other reason other than expansion due to variety of moisture content. That said I didn't see any discussion of t&g as a method of timber cladding externally.
    •  
      CommentAuthorKieran
    • CommentTimeJul 6th 2007
     
    hmmm... don't know where the file went. whisper your email address to me and I'll mail it. That goes for anyone else for whom the link above doesn't work.
  15.  
    If I want to fix the cladding vertically, what profile am I best getting? I was thinking T&G but are their other options for vertical fixing?
  16.  
    In my opinion, the most effective, easiest, and most 'forgiving' method of fixing vertical cladding would be simply using square edge boards of equal widths such that one lot of boards is screwed onto counterbattens, spaced apart such that the other boards then cover the gaps with an overlap of about 20 mm each side. You can also use wide boards for the inner layer, leaving a small gap between, then cover the gap with narrower boards (sometimes known as 'board and batten'). Use countersunk S/S screws (don't screw through the overlap!). The 'heart' wood should face the weather, and any knots should face downwards to the outside.

    I think T and G is a bad idea for exterior cladding as the machined tongues and grooves present a much reduced section of timber, and therefore compromise durability and strength (e.g. tongue can swell in groove and split off when boards move or shrink). There's also a rather unpedictable degree of shrinkage/expansion in weather board - with T & G you could end up with gaps, or boards buckling due to lack of room for expansion.
    • CommentAuthorchuckey
    • CommentTimeJul 7th 2007
     
    Just as a possibility about 20 years ago I bought a Victorian bow topped door to use in my garden wall. I thought that it was tongue and groove. Well recently the "tongues" have started to slide out, they appear to be a thin hardwod strip that fits in to matching grooves in both planks.
    Frank
    • CommentAuthorRimu Homes
    • CommentTimeJul 10th 2007
     
    Hi Henry, Good point about the toungs jaming in the grooves then splitting off in dried weather, I have seen this when the timber dries out quickly.

    A house I am building at the mo has alot of vert cladding. I have made up some samples with dressed 65mm Cedar with a bevelled edge both sides. A 35mm treated batten has been fixed vertically behind.
    • CommentAuthorbellarby
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2007
     
    We have built our house this year using Siberian larch from Latvia. Its a great timber, very durable, vertical cladding with 25mm overlap.
    Suggest you buy the TRADA guide to timber cladding, costs about £20 but has all the details you need for windows etc. They have just released a new guide I believe. Remember you must use stainless steel nails, I kept reminding my joiners on this. Can get 80mm SS nails for a Plaslode gun and it seems to work well.

    As has been said, dont treat, detail right and it will last well and is almost zero maintenance.

    James
    • CommentAuthorbiffvernon
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2007
     
    Posted By: bellarbySiberian larch from Latvia.

    I thought Latvia was more Baltic than Siberian :)
    • CommentAuthordavid
    • CommentTimeJul 24th 2007
     
    I built a bird hide from larch about 15 years ago. The site is about as exposed as it could be. The only element missing is salt water spray! There are wind turbines nearby.
    The roof and walls are clad with Welsh larch, either Japanese or European variety. 25mm x 150mm vertical boards with 25mm overlaps. Get the fixing details from TRADA. The roof has a beautiful covering of lichens and the walls are pale grey. The building is in good condition, has no leaks, and no rot. The nails were galvanised, not stainless, and they have not corroded.
    There is plenty of good Larch in the U.K. Much nearer than Eastern Europe. Siberian larch is from old growth forest which should not be felled for the purpose of cladding houses.
    •  
      CommentAuthorOJ
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2007
     
    Posted By: bellarbyWe have built our house this year using Siberian larch from Latvia. Its a great timber, very durable, vertical cladding with 25mm overlap.
    Suggest you buy the TRADA guide to timber cladding, costs about £20 but has all the details you need for windows etc. They have just released a new guide I believe. Remember you must use stainless steel nails, I kept reminding my joiners on this. Can get 80mm SS nails for a Plaslode gun and it seems to work well.

    As has been said, dont treat, detail right and it will last well and is almost zero maintenance.

    James


    Is this the 2000 book, amended in 2003, by Hislop or is there a more recent one available or iminent?
    Thanks, OJ
    • CommentAuthordavid
    • CommentTimeJul 25th 2007
     
    If you fit vertical board cladding, either board on board or batten on board, then the heartwood [ the part of the board which was closest to the middle of the tree] should be away from the weather on the inner layer and towards the weather on the outer layer . When the boards dry they become cup shaped in section and laid this way around there won't be any gaps. The cups will interlock.
    Always try to fit the boards when the wood is freshly sawn, before it has dried and definately not kiln dried. Keep it closely piled and in the shade. Larch can be nailed easily without splitting before it dries. When it's dry every nail should be drilled for.
    Don't use screws because they hold too well. The boards have to be able to move a bit otherwise they may crack.
  24.  
    I have ended up with some T&G cedar which I need to fix vertically. I'm about ready to nail it up and was wondering:-

    1 One nail or two into each board where it crosses the baton? I though one would allow for the timber to swell without restriction (boards are only 87mm cover)
    2 Should I be trying to fix the tongue into the groove as tight as possible or use a thin spacer, again to allow for swelling?
    3 Should I be piloting the nail holes to prevent splits?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2007
     
    Two nails and yes pilot them if you cant get phosphor-bronze ring shank pinny nails then best or cedar shingle nails will do if they are long enough. There can be both corrosion problems and unsightly staining problems to watch out for. How dry is your cedar? Are you going to treat it in any way? it is OK with none.
  26.  
    It seems fairly dry to me and I wasn't planning on treating it. I've seen floorboards laid cramped tight which have then swollen giging a "lumpy" surface and I'm just a bit concerned the same thing might happen with the cladding. I wondered whether to cut some thin pieces of card to use as packings when I'm butting the boards up together to leave say a 1 or 2mm expansion gap to allow for this.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 4th 2007
     
    I wouldn't worry they will not swell up like softwood they are cedar and so long as they have a tongue and groove they will be OK just pushed up by hand there will be enough natural gaps left to take care of any small movements. At the bottom I would cut them with a slight fall outwards to act as a drip.
  28.  
    Thanks Tony - I like the drip idea.
    • CommentAuthorOliver
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2007
     
    Does anyone have any info regarding suppliers in the South for a relatively small amount (circa. 13sq/m's) of Larch cladding (25x150m)
    Thanks
    • CommentAuthorOliver
    • CommentTimeNov 14th 2007
     
    sorry, South of England.

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