Sun, 19 Apr 2026 10:42:01 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4576#Comment_4576 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4576#Comment_4576 Wed, 11 Jul 2007 09:02:15 +0100 dave123
Thinking out-of-the-box, what in reality would actually happen if all this wonderful talk was put into action?
I for instance (apart from my ongoing discussion on solar water heating) have done everything I can to reduced my electric and gas bills by about three quarters of the norm (just a rough estimate).
Could you imagine how devastating that would be to the government coffers, if every household in Britain were to do the same?
Three quarters of their tax on energy (oil, electricity, and gas) would disappear. And that is only the start.
God forbid that we should get a really efficient bus and rail service that is cheap and affordable that would keep us out of our cars (I travelled on the Belgian rail service last year, and I couldn't believe how clean and efficient it was, even the air conditioner had air freshener incorporated) think of the tax they would lose on fuel, I'm not sure how much tax they charge on fuel nowadays, but I bet it's a massive amount.

“Let Britain lead the way” I wonder why I don't believe them?

Perhaps I'm being cynical. If all the above were to happen, we perhaps, wouldn't be able to afford to go to war quite so often.
Maybe they could go back to the daylight tax

I will let others discuss the merits of alcohol and tobacco taxes (if we tax it high enough people will stop smoking and drinking, do we really live on the same planet?) To name just a few.

That is it I have had my rant for today.

Dave]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4588#Comment_4588 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4588#Comment_4588 Wed, 11 Jul 2007 12:47:02 +0100 moogaloo
Plus the tax system is reviewed every 6 months]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4597#Comment_4597 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4597#Comment_4597 Wed, 11 Jul 2007 16:19:25 +0100 Chris Wardle
The effect of this on government revenues will be negative as it will be for households and the corporate sector. Once we pass Peak Oil, I would guess we will be able to substitute coal and gas for a while but Peak Energy may not be too far behind and then we will see how the global economy responds. I can only see a prolonged depression being the result which, when you consider the amount of household and government debt we are carrying, not the mention the hundreds of billions of pounds worth of PFI obligations and unfunded state and private pension liabilities, has got to be cause for concern.

When countries have massive debts that they can't repay because they aren't generating the growth and hence the savings to do so, the route out is high levels of inflation which erodes the real value of the debt. I think this is where we are heading, perhaps it has already started. The way for an individual to protect him or herself against inflation is to invest in hard assets, like gold, silver, oil, gas, other minerals, forestry, agricultural land and avoid bonds, cash and any fixed interest securities.

Perhaps we will emerge from the other side with something better than the wasteful, consumer societies we have now and which the Chinese and Indians are unwisely trying to emulate?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4624#Comment_4624 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4624#Comment_4624 Thu, 12 Jul 2007 08:39:38 +0100 dave123
"The way for an individual to protect him or herself against inflation is to invest in hard assets, like gold, silver, oil, gas, other minerals, forestry, agricultural land and avoid bonds, cash and any fixed interest securities. "

About 30 years ago when energy efficiency wasn't really an issue (at least in the general publics perception) I built my first solar panel. I also had a conservatory built on the back of the house using the base as a heat sump, diverting the heat from the apex into the sump. After the initial investment (in hard labour and sweat) it continues to work for 30 years, and I assume is still happily working today.

As you probably guess, I see energy efficiency as a hard assets. I remember many years ago old age pensioners dying because they could not afford to heat their homes. I swore then, that I would do everything in my power to stop that happening to me.

Regards Dave]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4646#Comment_4646 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4646#Comment_4646 Thu, 12 Jul 2007 20:11:23 +0100 Chris Wardle https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4648#Comment_4648 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4648#Comment_4648 Thu, 12 Jul 2007 21:16:57 +0100 biffvernon
Unfortunately, in a post-peak oil world, any energy savings we make will not help the climate change problem as the saved fuel will be burnt elsewhere.

Doom and gloom :(]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4658#Comment_4658 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4658#Comment_4658 Fri, 13 Jul 2007 12:12:03 +0100 Dominic Cooney I am imagining a scenario where one scrimps and saves all ones life to buy some land to grow food, biomass for energy, or to put up a wind turbine etc.
only to have your hard assets seized for the 'greater good'

or by that stage will government rule, law & order, and therefore society break down into the sort of anarchy that requires a big fence/dog or armed guards to protect your veg plot?
]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4671#Comment_4671 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4671#Comment_4671 Fri, 13 Jul 2007 20:18:36 +0100 Chris Wardle
The US Government seized gold and silver bullion in the 1930's by Presidential decree which made it illegal for the people to hold bullion. The law which allowed this was whipped through Congress without the representatives being allowed time to read it. They weren't even given a copy of the bill! Of course the Fed kindly printed some paper dollars in exchange, which I'm sure the people were grateful for.

When we see HMG gathering increasingly authoritarian powers to itself and the relentless increase in CCTV and other forms of monitoring people, it does worry me. It gets through by using the terrorism excuse but we didn't need it to fight the IRA did we? If the Government of this country became suddenly much more authoritarian as a result of some disaster or event, they would have most of the powers and infrastructure in place to run Britain as a police state.

I wonder what will happen when fuel shortages really start to bite? Public clamour for action and the rise of a "strong man"? Chavez was elected but doesn't govern like a democrat. Neither does Putin. You like to think it could never here but the Germans probably would have said the same thing in the 1920s (6 million unemployed later and they elected Hitler).

Looking on the bright side, if you own land and are using it productively and offering your surpluses to the open market, what would be gained by confiscation? On the other hand, I could see some of these country estates being broken up and the parkland going under the plough if we get desperate for food supplies.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4742#Comment_4742 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4742#Comment_4742 Mon, 16 Jul 2007 10:36:21 +0100 dave123
I was listening to the news last night, and they were talking about paying people that recycle the most rubbish, and fining those that don't.
I have a slight problem with that, in so much as, everything in this house is cooked from scratch, (no packaging) what we don't eat, we either feed to the wormery (kitchen scraps) or burn on our wood burner. Consequently there is very little left out for Dustman/recycle collectors.
Would that mean I was going to be fined?

I guess I'm being cynical
]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4762#Comment_4762 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4762#Comment_4762 Mon, 16 Jul 2007 20:07:57 +0100 Chris Wardle https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4784#Comment_4784 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4784#Comment_4784 Tue, 17 Jul 2007 09:14:02 +0100 dave123 I have just re-read this thread, and somehow seem to have missed your earlier comments.

"I've had an ambition for a while to build/renovate a low energy home for my family partly because I see it as a great investment opportunity, i.e. spend the cash up front, while it still has some value, and take away the burden of large utility bills "

As you've probably read in my previous posts, I entirely agree with you. At the moment my utility bills (as I have mentioned previously) are currently running at £41 per month, and that is without solar water heating. The above figure does not mean that we are permanently wearing thermals throughout the winter, in fact the house is always kept at 68°.

Although I carried out major alterations to the house, the outlay was relatively small, as there were no labour costs (having done everything myself).
But, the point is, no matter what happens to price of energy in the future we will still be low end users.
As an aside, the house can function quite happily, without either gas or electricity. and For what it's worth we, also have a water well.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4792#Comment_4792 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4792#Comment_4792 Tue, 17 Jul 2007 15:31:58 +0100 Chris Wardle
What's wrong with thermals by the way? I'm in them all winter. Put the insulation where it is most effective I say. £40 for a couple of decent sets, best money you'll ever spend!]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4822#Comment_4822 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4822#Comment_4822 Wed, 18 Jul 2007 10:25:26 +0100 dave123
Well I hope you change them more than twice a year, :-).

Glad you sold your house. Good hunting, and hope you find something to your liking.

Regards Dave]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4824#Comment_4824 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4824#Comment_4824 Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:16:06 +0100 biffvernon https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4826#Comment_4826 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=458&Focus=4826#Comment_4826 Wed, 18 Jul 2007 11:31:20 +0100 biffvernon