Tue, 23 Jun 2026 03:38:33 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63448#Comment_63448 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63448#Comment_63448 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 14:35:52 +0100 saxony https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63449#Comment_63449 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63449#Comment_63449 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 14:47:18 +0100 Tuna https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63473#Comment_63473 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63473#Comment_63473 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 19:55:17 +0100 Johnh
Apart from the horrendous fumes it will chuck into the atmosphere it will stink out his house and probably damage his stove and flue system as well. I've personally seen 3 stoves and four flue systems damaged by people burning creosoted telegraph poles.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63475#Comment_63475 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63475#Comment_63475 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 20:21:32 +0100 CWatters
http://www.hse.gov.uk/biocides/copr/creosote.htm

Quote: There are also restrictions on where wood that has been treated with creosote/coal tar creosote can be used. The Business, Enterprise and Regulatory Reform (BERR) can provide further information on these restrictions (tel: 020 7215 5000). Endquote.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63487#Comment_63487 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63487#Comment_63487 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 21:44:33 +0100 spoonandfork https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63489#Comment_63489 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63489#Comment_63489 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 22:27:33 +0100 rogerwhit https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63493#Comment_63493 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63493#Comment_63493 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:15:37 +0100 SimonH https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63497#Comment_63497 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63497#Comment_63497 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:31:47 +0100 mitchino https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63502#Comment_63502 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63502#Comment_63502 Tue, 06 Oct 2009 23:53:41 +0100 adrian hollister https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63506#Comment_63506 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63506#Comment_63506 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 07:57:02 +0100 simeon
Because of similar (though not as severe) problems, I ascertained what hte legal position is on waste as fuel.

There is a little uncertainty as to the legal status of burning rubbish produced from within your own property. It seems you can do so as long as it is rubbish disposal not a regular source of fuel and that it does not cause a nuisance ( and this includes offending sights and smells). But the next point is important. The only waste you can use as fuel is green waste. Green waste includes wood offcuts, leaves even. All other waste is illegal. This waste includes any treated or used timber. Even pallets and even untreated pallets are illegal.

These regulations are there to protect the environment and human health. You need to remember that wood smoke is over rten times more carcinogenic than tobacco smoke and burning waste potentially multiplies carcinogenic potency many times over.

The regulations are the responsibility of the Environment Agency but the enforcers of those regulations are the local Council. Your Council may not want to become involved - just inform them that any correspondence with them will be forwarded to the EA if any foot dragging takes place.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63520#Comment_63520 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63520#Comment_63520 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:25:50 +0100 biffvernon (And you won't burn the wood indoors twice - dreadful smell.)]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63523#Comment_63523 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63523#Comment_63523 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 12:42:40 +0100 Martin Jenkins https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63529#Comment_63529 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63529#Comment_63529 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 13:32:26 +0100 pmusgrove https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63532#Comment_63532 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63532#Comment_63532 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 14:08:17 +0100 James Norton


J]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63544#Comment_63544 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63544#Comment_63544 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 16:29:21 +0100 simeon
I did not realise anyone doubted that.
Anyway, just for starters:

http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Meetings/95-coal-biomass.pdf

and more relevant for contaminated wood:

http://www.defra.gov.uk/environment/quality/chemicals/documents/dioxinsdomestic-final0605.pdf

EA regulations:

Advice given: "Looking through this any wood that is not virgin timber is classed as waste and would need an exemption or permit to burn. As a pallet is not made from virgin timber any wood from the pallet once it has been discarded would be classed as waste.

The burning of waste at a domestic property is illegal unless its green waste which includes virgin timber from the property. The burning of green waste at a domestic property still needs to be within the local authorities guidelines under Environmental Protection Act 1990 and the Highways Acts mentioned by my colleague.

If virgin wood for use as a fuel was purchased to burn at the property this would legal also, as this not classed as waste and being used for a purpose other than disposal. However they could not burn other forms of green waste as this would be a waste disposal activity."

Portal page: http://www.environment-agency.gov.uk/business/topics/waste/39017.aspx

Hope that helps.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63549#Comment_63549 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=63549#Comment_63549 Wed, 07 Oct 2009 16:53:22 +0100 saxony
It might not be strictly legal, but there's a big problem with enforcement as it's difficult to get proper evidence, and not cost effective for local authorities to chase people for what they do on a small scale unless it really affects someone nearby.

Just have to hope he doesn't like the smell!]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=64660#Comment_64660 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=64660#Comment_64660 Thu, 22 Oct 2009 17:03:19 +0100 saxony
I can only assume the man has no sense of smell! (Or just no sense).]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=64737#Comment_64737 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=64737#Comment_64737 Fri, 23 Oct 2009 13:45:38 +0100 Miked2714 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=64766#Comment_64766 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=64766#Comment_64766 Fri, 23 Oct 2009 17:49:47 +0100 joe90
I have read your input on this topic before as I am planning to instal a woodburning stove in the future. I read the info you refered to above and found that generally the references were to bonfires and cooking over wood burning fires and burning waste including plastic being the worst. This brings to mind third world countries where we know in-house/hut polution is a problem (see http://www.stovesonline.co.uk/darfur-stove.html).

I was interested to read in the site you posted:

Overall evaluation:-
Indoor emissions from household combustion of biomass fuel (primarily wood) are probably carcino-genic to humans.

"probably?

I would suggest to you that a modern, well designed room sealed woodburning stove that has such low emisions that they are legal in smokeless zones ( see Dunsley Yorkshire) fired correctly using dry fuel (as anyone with any sense would do to ensure efficiency) using either local timber or recycled wood waste (untreated) is far more safe than using electricity from massive generating sites whatever their fuel.

No I would never burn a utility pole.

Joe90]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=64786#Comment_64786 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=64786#Comment_64786 Fri, 23 Oct 2009 20:33:05 +0100 simeon
I am all in favour of biomass energy but we must understand its limited potential. I personally favour local biomass CHP's with an output of around 1MW. These units can abate their emissions by filtering and controlled temperatures.

Yes, wood smoke does have a 2A rating from the IARC. The source of smoke inside a house is mostly from the outside from your own and neighbouring chimneys.

With quality stoves, you do get improved emissions but the smokeless limit is a poor one. It roughly equates to 5g PM10 smoke particles per kg of wood burnt. In my opinion, the worst standard we should be 1g PM10 per kg of fuel. There are woodchip furnaces and wood pellets stoves that can just achieve that but I am not aware of any log burning stoves that burn below the 1g limit.

It is difficult to make precise statements, but if every house in a built up area emitted smoke particles at the smokeless limit the death rate would rise significantly when compared to a built up area with no smoke emissions from flues or chimneys. The difference would be between 5 and 10%.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=65248#Comment_65248 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=65248#Comment_65248 Sat, 31 Oct 2009 14:28:57 +0000 architectonics https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=65292#Comment_65292 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=65292#Comment_65292 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 19:11:48 +0000 simeon
Removing anything from skips

Using any treated or used wood product as a fuel for home fires.


Burning doors from skips is definitely potentially highly toxic (good grammar??) - what is why the practice has been deemed illegal.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=65297#Comment_65297 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=65297#Comment_65297 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 21:19:14 +0000 joe90
I understand why treated wood is potentially risky to burn but what is the reasoning for the burning of "used" wood to be illegal? Also what is the definition of "used".

You used the term "virgin wood" before and I understand that to be "tree or part theroff"" but what about offcuts of wood used in the building industy or simply DIY, and why should it be deemed "waste" when in fact it has not yet been used for anything?.

I believe that this is another example of the nanny state gone mad, as per other threads we should be glad of re-cycling rather than throwing away, in fact that is what our local council is trying to get us to do to avoid landfill.

A recent programme I watched showed poor people in China "buying" old cardboard from shops ETC and selling it on for a meagre profit. I do not think we are ready for that yet but I bet they have a lot less waste to bury than we do.

What next, skip police?.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=65300#Comment_65300 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=65300#Comment_65300 Sun, 01 Nov 2009 22:41:54 +0000 simeon
However, it can be used in incineration plants which comply with the waste incineration directive. It is a good use for waste wood. Burn it in a WID complying incinerator and make energy from it. That is recycling and safe recycling.

We got to think through these issues. Be Green but be clean.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=65306#Comment_65306 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=65306#Comment_65306 Mon, 02 Nov 2009 02:17:09 +0000 wookey https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=69549#Comment_69549 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=69549#Comment_69549 Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:01:20 +0000 saxony
How can it be that someone is allowed to get away with producing a smell that makes you want to heave? I think it doesn't bother them as it burns so hot the smell is away up the chimney and bothering someone else in no time. Anyone else I mention this to is horrified at the idea.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=69554#Comment_69554 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=69554#Comment_69554 Sat, 19 Dec 2009 12:39:25 +0000 Julian https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=69566#Comment_69566 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=69566#Comment_69566 Sat, 19 Dec 2009 16:58:41 +0000 saxony https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=69579#Comment_69579 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=69579#Comment_69579 Sat, 19 Dec 2009 20:18:02 +0000 Julian It seems clear to me - you can see the dark coloured outer wood where the creosote has penetrated and the silverered surface where is has weathered. As well as the creosote if they are storing the wood uncovered as it appears it will burn even less efficiently sand probably mae even more smoke. I hadn't thought of the Environment Agency / controlled waste argument but that seems even clearer cut than the other approach.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=69582#Comment_69582 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=4638&Focus=69582#Comment_69582 Sat, 19 Dec 2009 21:04:35 +0000 simeon
This is what the EA told me

any wood that is not virgin timber is classed as waste and would need an exemption or permit to burn. As a pallet is not made from virgin timber any wood from the pallet once it has been discarded would be classed as waste.

The burning of waste at a domestic property is illegal unless its green waste which includes virgin timber from the property. The burning of green waste at a domestic property still needs to be within the local authorities guidelines under Environmental Protection Act 1990 and the Highways Acts mentioned by my colleague.

If virgin wood for use as a fuel was purchased to burn at the property this would legal also, as this not classed as waste and being used for a purpose other than disposal. However they could not burn other forms of green waste as this would be a waste disposal activity.

Actually what made me ill was the burning of painted wood rather than pallet wood but that is another story. Regulation and who enforces it does seem to be a problem.

Local Authorities are either not aware of the more recent rules or have simply chosen not to enforce them.

My MP has written to the government asking for clarification. Part of his letter . . .

I should be grateful if you, or one of your colleagues, could let me know what guidance has been issued by the government to Local Authorities regarding informing the general public about the rules regarding the burning of material in households, either as bonfires or on domestic solid fuel fires.

I have yet to have a response.]]>