Green Building Forum - Any experience with low energy downlights?

Any experience with low energy downlights?

itsgrimupnorthlondon — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 13:27:48 +0100

I'm looking at the Rio T2 downlights. The bulbs seem to have a higher lumins output then similar megaman CFLs. Has anyone used/seen these lights?

www.mygreenlighting.co.uk/spot_lights/low_energy_downlights/414.html

Any experience with low energy downlights?

jamesingram — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 13:43:19 +0100

No I haven't , it looks like a GU10 fitting with a larger spiral CFL on the end , so probably why it got higher output
I'll have to given a go
jim

Any experience with low energy downlights?

CWatters — Thu, 08 Oct 2009 18:35:31 +0100

10W Rio T2 L1.... Height 7.2 cm, diameter 5.3cm, Brightness 470 Lumens

but compare with..

www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Products/GUCFL11.html
11W Megaman GU10 Height 7.6cm, diameter 5cm, brightness 570 Lumens
(is that data correct?)

and this one claims 600 lumens in (more or less) the same form factor..
www.cromptonlamps.com/images/pdf/P25_Comp_Flu_GU10.pdf
CFGU101011WW Height 7.7cm, diameter 5cm, brightness 600 lumens

Who can you believe these days?

Any experience with low energy downlights?

itsgrimupnorthlondon — Fri, 09 Oct 2009 15:41:21 +0100

Anyone have any real world recommendations?

Any experience with low energy downlights?

wellburn — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 08:13:51 +0100

I have retro fitted a number of GU10 low energy alternatives.
The LED options from 1 - 3w all seem to be an eirie cold blue white, and are quite focussed.
My favourite (to date) is MEGAMAN 3000k 11w BR1711 which does protrude, over the MEGAMAN 3000k 7w BR0707i which is nearly flush.
think I got em from B+Q for about Â£6 ?
Both offer a broad flood compared with the tight beam of illumination associated with the halogen they replace.
Colour of the halogen was probably prefered, - but 11w over 50w .... and v long lamp life.

Any experience with low energy downlights?

CWatters — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 10:11:34 +0100

I've got seven megaman 9W (warm white, 3000K) installed in my home office. Quite happy with the brightness and colour. Only issue is the warm up time. It's a pain if you are turning the light on to look for something small you've dropped on the floor. Not really an issue otherwise. I imagine the 11W warm white 3000k would be good. Web price seems to be typically Â£7.50-Â£9each in 10 off. There is also a dimmable version.

Best buy one and try before buying lots.

Any experience with low energy downlights?

itsgrimupnorthlondon — Sat, 10 Oct 2009 14:01:38 +0100

sounds like a lot of happy people for the megaman CFLs. Thanks guys.

Any experience with low energy downlights?

adavis — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 09:21:05 +0100

Hello,

Before we start I'll point out that I work for My Green Lighting.

Might be a bit late to the conversation, but the L1 Rio fittings, use a lamp which is much faster to start up then the current Megaman lamps - this is the most obvious advantage of the L1 spiral lamps over the Megaman lamps.

I don't have a Megaman lamp to hand at the moment, so I can't comment on how much light output it produced in terms of lumens. It is true that because the L1 lamps doesn't have a cover - as you can see in the images it's open at the front, the light output isn't restricted, so it might appear to be brighter.

The L1 lamp also has a polished reflector which helps to ensure that all the light is efficiently projected forward.

I do know that the Megaman dimmable models do not produce as much light as the non dimmable version.

Obviously a lot of the compact fluorescent lamps are a different size to regular halogen lamps, so make sure they fit your fittings before you start. The Rio fittings that we sell, have been designed to work with the L1 lamp, so there's no problem with physical dimensions.

Any experience with low energy downlights?

itsgrimupnorthlondon — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 18:28:52 +0100

Interesting, thanks Adavis. Do your L1 bulbs work in longer GU10 fittings too?

Any experience with low energy downlights?

wellburn — Wed, 14 Oct 2009 20:19:52 +0100

This L1 looks like a 'system' rather than a simple swap out for GU10
here is a link i found http://www.tp24.com/l1_low_energy.html
So Adavis, - can you swap these bulbs into installed GU10 fittings ?
P

Any experience with low energy downlights?

CWatters — Fri, 16 Oct 2009 11:54:10 +0100

Part L of the regs requires fittings that can't take an incandescent bulbs. Initially this prevented the use of GU10 style CFL because they could be replaced by regular halogen bulbs. So a "GU10 L1" base was invented. This looks like a GU10 but in the fitting there is a pin that mates with a hole in CFL bulbs.

This means the base of new low energy bulbs should fit the socket of fittings designed for halogen but not the other way around. However you still need to check if the glass part of the bulb fits in the light fitting. Sometimes the GU10 socket is floating and the bulb is fixed in by a clip at the front face. That type may only take GU10 bulbs of the same physical height.

Any experience with low energy downlights?

jamesingram — Sat, 17 Oct 2009 08:17:50 +0100

interesting.
perhaps its also to help line them up as they can be a bugger to fit sometimes

my current preffered GU10 downlights fittings to deep to take a standard halogen ( the GU10 cfl approx. twice as deep) Building controls seem happy with it. Ok airtightness also (with a bit of sealant) unlike some other similar brands
http://www.smaclite.co.uk/productinfo.asp?id=169

Any experience with low energy downlights?

richardmcbride — Wed, 18 Nov 2009 21:32:29 +0000

I have just bought one of the 11w T2 L1 from mygreenlighting and compared it to both a 50w GU10 halogen spot and the 11w Megaman.
In terms of absolute brightness the T2 L1 is just shaded by the 50w halogen with the Megaman trailing someway behind.
In terms of sprad the T2 L1 does have a wider spread than the halogen.
As mentioned above the 11w T2 L1 can not be used to replace the 50w halogen as it is longer than the halogen.

Based on this I have decided to put the 11w T2 L1 downlighters in the kitchen of my new build instead of the halogens.

Richard

Any experience with low energy downlights?

CWatters — Thu, 19 Nov 2009 14:28:33 +0000

Thanks for the write up. If the beam angle of the halogen was a lot narrower than the LED it would make the halogen appear brighter - so perhaps they aren't so different?

Any experience with low energy downlights?

adavis — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 14:28:44 +0000

Hi - sorry for not checking back here sooner.

The L1 lamp cap is backward compatible with GU10, i.e.you can put an L1 lamp in a GU10 lamp holder but not a GU10 lamp in an L1 lamp holder. It's the pin in the middle that prevent a regular GU10 lamp from being used. Having said that some low energy lamps sold as having a GU10 cap may also have a suitable hole in the middle. I found some 'tube' shaped lamps from Ring Lighting in my local Focus store recently that had an L1 cap, even though the packaging described it as GU10.

As for the L1 T2 spot lamp being used in other fittings, in theory you can do this as the connectors are compatible, but in practise the L1 lamp is wider than most others near it's base and the maximum diameter of the reflector is also a few mm wider than a regular GU10 bulb too. These differences might prevent it's use in most other fittings.

You can see the shape of the L1 T2 spot lamp here:
http://www.mygreenlighting.co.uk/replacement_bulbs/l1_low_energy_bulbs/415.html

So if it physically fits in your light fitting, then yes it can be retro-fitted. The reflector is removable, and the lamp can be used without it, but unless the inside of your light fitting is suitably reflective that would make a big reduction in the light output.

It's also worth pointing out that the L1 lamp is only a 10w lamp so it uses a bit less power than all the 11w lamps out there.

Any experience with low energy downlights?

jamesingram — Wed, 25 Nov 2009 17:58:36 +0000

Just got these , 3w and 5w warm white LED GU10s standard size and depth so will fit all old gu10 downlights or tracks etc., much better than the old style blueish LED range , yet to try the cool white , they suggest that the're brighter

http://www.tlc-direct.co.uk/Main_Index/Energy_Saving_Index/Energy_Saving_Lamps_Index/GU_Led/index.html

quite impressed , not dimmerable put instant light to a level of the 9w/11w gu10 CFls ( megaman etc.)
perhaps better ,
been around a while but the price seems to be coming down now 3w -Â£9.50 +
Use a lot of the CFL GU10s over the last couple of years but i'm starting to get the odd blown one
which is disapointing

cheers Jim

Any experience with low energy downlights?

arty — Thu, 26 Nov 2009 08:48:19 +0000

Posted By: CWattersPart L of the regs requires fittings that can't take an incandescent bulbs. Initially this prevented the use of GU10 style CFL because they could be replaced by regular halogen bulbs. So a "GU10 L1" base was invented. This looks like a GU10 but in the fitting there is a pin that mates with a hole in CFL bulbs.

I thought i wasn't a requirement more of an advisory guide ?

Any experience with low energy downlights?

CWatters — Fri, 27 Nov 2009 19:37:09 +0000

Posted By: arty
Posted By: CWattersPart L of the regs requires fittings that can't take an incandescent bulbs. Initially this prevented the use of GU10 style CFL because they could be replaced by regular halogen bulbs. So a "GU10 L1" base was invented. This looks like a GU10 but in the fitting there is a pin that mates with a hole in CFL bulbs.

I thought i wasn't a requirement more of an advisory guide ?

Could be. Para 42 says...

"_A_ way of showing compliance would be to provide lighting fittings ...snip...that only take lamps having a luminous efficacy greater than 40 lumens per circuit-Watt...snip.."

and in italics..

"Fluorescent and compact fluorescent lighting fittings would meet this standard. Lighting fittings for GLS tungsten lamps with bayonet cap or Edison screw bases, or tungsten halogen lamps would not"

Not sure if that makes it a requirement or an advisory guide?