What other stuff would I need?

I am assuming
Water Connection £1,000.00
Drainage £9,000.00
Electrics £7,500.00
Heating £10,000.00
Kitchen & bathroom £4,000.00
Landscaping
Car Parking 600sqm 25sqm -£8,000.00
Paths 50 sqm £1,500.00
Play area 180 sqm
Fencing @ £30 approx 125 linear m £4,000.00
Total £13,500.00 £13,500.00

Grand Total £45,000.00


Then either the money to pull down the barn & use the base (don't know how much that would be?) or the cost of the concrete base - which would be more expensive?

Could I knock down the barn and use the base as car parking? - would that be cost effective?

As the main space is open plan - I can't really only renovate part of it - as appealing as that is I'd like to do the offcies/kitchen/staffroom & toilets at a later stage - but they are all required in order to open

I could do the parking less substantially - however planning & building regs demand the turning circle for deliveries and emergency vehicles

The parking is mesh over grass so that would mean it would just be grass or maybe just the barley field it is atm

The fencing is important to keeping the children in more than anything else - OFSTED insist that they are completely enclosed, I have dumped the playarea surfacing and am just looking at grass (with the surfacing to be added later - if I can afford it)

My "to do later" list atm includes
Solar hot water
Rainwater harvesting
More eco heating??if I go for oil to start with
Play area surfacing
Proper parking
Nicer fencing (eg willow)
If I go with the barn conversion finishing the internal walls will come later along with window blinds, outside shading & internal windows (ie I will make the hole and put glass in when I can afford)

OFSTED are so picky about stuff it makes it difficult to consider the alternatives
They wouldn't let unfinished building works anywhere the children could get to, so that would mean more fencing

So if I kept the barn - I would need to put in a concrete slab, if I went down the cabin line

I'm seeing an advisor next week to discuss my options - to see where I have made errors

No - because potty training 3 yo's can't hold on that long
Staff need to be on the premises for insurance (ie not in another building)
Kitchen & offices could (I guess) - but as my big costs are roofing, insulation & flooring I don't think that would help

Let me think about it

There was an idea to only develop half the barn (ie 10m by 10m) & use the rest as an undercover play area
- but the roof would still need replacing and the building would look really odd with only half being expernally insulated

Also by the time the loos/kitchen/staffroom & adult loos are in (ignoring the office/reception etc) there would only be enough room for about 20 children and that number doesn't split up (by age range) into effective staffing numbers (that sounds really complicated but here goes

1 adult :3 under 1
1 adult :4 2-3yo
1 adult to 8 3-5

So 3 under 1 plus 4 2-3yo plus 8 3-5 yo is 15 children any more means more adults

BUT each area needs 2 adults so I have to employ
2 for the under 1's (therefore 6)
2 for the 2-3yo's (therefore 8)
2 for the 3-5yo's (therefore 16)

Giving my 30 children - this is for child protection issues that are apparently so important

If I cut my size I either employ staff to look after no children (not cost effective) or exclude an age range (not ideal)

I'm not being intentionally awkward btw

It's the only business in the country where you have to set up, employ your staff & only then find out whether or not you will get a license to open

I would seriously consider starting with half the barn fitted out, full roof and an internal stud wall to make things simple. Start with the easiest children first - 16 3-5yo's gives you half your projected capacity, with only 1/3rd the full staff numbers. I know it might look funny and not be ideal, but this is about starting a business, not trying to impress people.

I think I'm right in saying you've never run a business or been the boss of a number of staff? If so, I would suggest you try to take small steps first. Being in charge of six people who depend on you utterly for their income, as well as trying to bring in paying customers, solve teething problems and run a nursery from day to day will be extremely stressful. Breaking the big problem into little steps will help you get there with much less stress and risk. Opening a nursery with a full set of staff and a big overdraft will make your initial cash flow very, very difficult, so starting small might not only help you deal with your costs, but also help you avoid running out of cash in the first year.

Cool, I'm not saying this is the answer, but I know how hard it is to look at a problem a different way when you've been attacking it for many months. Sometimes you have to take a step back and see if you can let go some of your assumptions.

If I buy a portacabin - will I be able to afford to renovate the barn?

Last quote I had was for £85K (second hand)...mind you that was for the whole area

I'd have to work it out.....hmmm

Thanks - I spoke to an architect today & he seems very supportive......

Where we had our van you could pick up 10' wide 12 year olds for only £1k, and they'd be in reasonable nick. Most caravan sites allow vans to stay for 10 years, some allow 12 if you were already there, so as soon as a van reached 12 it was worth very little.

I'd take a trip around the craravan sites now, as this is when a lot of updating is done, you might even find that it is cheaper for them to allow you to pay for the cost of moving it and they just give it to you, if they are updating, as most sites won't take a 12+ van in exchange for new.

Cost of moving is not cheap, but nowhere near £85k