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Energy Assessment: Energy reports "a waste of time"

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  1.  
    • CommentAuthorsinnerboy
    • CommentTimeNov 6th 2009 edited
     
    The blunt statement from here from Aunt B

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/scotland/glasgow_and_west/8317134.stm

    and not much better news from the Emerald Isle

    http://constructireland.ie/Vol-4-Issue-2/Articles/Passive-Housing/Are-energy-ratings-letting-down-passive-houses.html

    Maybe those who devised the EPC software reckon they know well what will happen - picture this -

    Upon finding that her social housing unit ( PH ) has no boiler :shocked: - on her toes down to Argos to buy elec blow heaters . And leave the windows open . In winter .
    • CommentAuthorjon
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2009
     
    Does anyone know if EPCs being taken seriously by the public?

    There's a good opportunity for arbitrage after the next phase of the downturn has occurred for those that know what they are doing? (Arbitrage in that I've seen EPCs with a dual G rating that I know are actually a G-B.. just that the assessor doesn't know what he/she's doing)
    • CommentAuthorNickiB
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2009
     
    Well, I had doubts as to the accuracy of the EPC on the house that I bought - the report said the house had suspended timber floors on the ground floor when it actually had solid floors...

    The rating was G1 which did actually make me hesitate to buy the place.

    N
    • CommentAuthorbrig001
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2009
     
    I thought you could use a full SAP to make an EPC for non-standard builds. Anyone know if this is true?
    Not sure if even this would give the correct rating for a Passivhaus...
  5.  
    Not absolutely sure , but 99% I think you must use RdSAP
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2009
     
    my house cant even get a SAP
  7.  
    Not saying a SAP rating would in any way do justice to what you've done but why not?
    • CommentAuthorsinnerboy
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2009
     
    Me too - why not Tony ?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 7th 2009
     
    no boiler!
  10.  
    That's interesting. What happens if you decide to sell, given that a SAP generated EPC is a legal requirement?
    • CommentAuthorsinnerboy
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2009
     
    Correct Mike - at sale or letting - you must have an EPC . And in Tony's case - it is of course possible to generate one . .....if no primary heating source is installed - the assessor is compelled to enter elec heaters for primary heating .... ( thus the thread title )
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeNov 8th 2009
     
    my primary heater is the sun though
    • CommentAuthorStuartB
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2009
     
    Posted By: jonDoes anyone know if EPCs being taken seriously by the public?


    We have just sold our house and I must have shown 15-20 people around. We had a C rating which I thought was very good so I tried to use this as a selling point. I was wasting my breath! I would say 90% of people couldn't care less what rating the house had and didn't take the EPC seriously. The only comments I got relating to its contents were along the lines of "and how much per month are your electricity and gas bills"
    • CommentAuthorSigaldry
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2009
     
    New build = SAP to produce EPC (which does covers majority of sins regarding heating/hot water).

    Existing dwelling = RDSAP, which can appear to result in dissatisfaction as to what it allows you to enter, and also issues with proving to the assessor what has been approved over and above the 'average' for dwelling of a given age.

    If the Government had any sense, they would look to a) make both new build and existing EPC generation as accurate as possible and b) use EPC's as a basis for driving down the UK's CO2 emissions (Possibly Stamp duty being based on achieved rating maybe? or maybe even a sliding scale of Council tax depending on your dwelling's achieved rating - Make it worthwhile to the buyer and seller to look for a dwelling with good ratings/improve their existing).
    • CommentAuthorSigaldry
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2009
     
    More to the point regarding the initial story - Heat Pumps do not equate with low bills (i.e. trying to get a high SAP), nor do they equate with low CO2 emissions (Electricity in this country being largely generated via fossil fuels.

    Power a heat pump from renewable source however - and I will agree that they are a viable solution. They are also the best electric solution.

    And if they used a non 'Appendix Q' rated MVHR in conjunction with the heat pump (supposition only) then overall their rating wiould not be particularly great.

    On the plus side, I would imagine that they probably achieved a reasonable % improvement in DER over TER due to the stupid way that TER is calculated for different fuels. Showing a saving in emissions, whereas I would imagine the actual emissions saving would not be much compared to comparative gas heated dwelling.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2009
     
    SAP and presumably RDSAP are in process of radical revision - at the Mark Siddall/AECB presentation at EcoBuild the BRE/SAP man was there and entirely on-board, agreeing SAP's many present shortcomings and that Passivhaus should be the basis, but numerous UK-specific reasons why it has to be adapted. So when does new-SAP come in? - along with BRegs 2010? (when's that?), and anyone know whether RDSAP will follow suit?

    Don't write HIPS etc off - may be crude today, but will become key. The public will demand it, as fuel prices start to really hurt.
    • CommentAuthorSigaldry
    • CommentTimeNov 9th 2009
     
    SAP 2009 is already available in consultation format albeit.

    It drops requirement for Secondary heating amongst other things - for which I am sure Tony would be glad.

    However currently, the gaping loophole regarding Heat Pumps is still present - hopefully to be fixed before the final version goes live (Approved Document L1A 2010 targetted for October 2010 last heard) (near final documents and software therefore expected by April I would guess).

    There are a lot of other changes, some positive, some less so imo - personally I don't feel it is enough of a step forward.
  18.  
    Posted By: Mike GeorgeNot absolutely sure , but 99% I think you must use RdSAP


    Oops, - I stand corrected. Thanks Sigaldry.

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