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General: Tumble Dryers

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  1.  
    We are currently looking to buy a new tumble dryer and have noticed that none of the tumble dryers we have been looking ahieve a energy rating better than C. Is this to be expected or are there tumble dryers which offer better energy performance than this?
  2.  
    I guess using electric to warm air for dry your clothes is never going to get any green points

    I heard they do gas ones , might be worth looking into

    the washing lines , the only real green way to go
  3.  
    Miele do a heatpump tumble dryer - uses less electricity than an electric one and is "A" rated. Not sure if it recovers the latent heat from the water in the clothes, but it may well do so.

    http://www.miele.co.uk/PRODUCTS/heat-pump-tumble-dryer.aspx

    [edit] This one from AEG definitely does condense:

    http://www.greenandeasy.co.uk/product/AEG-T59840-Condenser-Tumble-Dryer.aspx


    Paul in Montreal.
  4.  
    Also an A-rated electric tumble drier from Bosch with heat pump which I also believe is condensing:
    http://www.bosch-home.co.uk/our-products/laundry/tumble-dryers/logixx/WTW84560GB.html?source=browse

    (Not a fan of tumble driers, but I think I'm going to be to over-ruled.)
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeDec 10th 2009 edited
     
    Paul , seems a good move forward in tumble dryers

    'A ' rated , but what does that mean , couldn't find any info on there power rating, usage

    is it a bit like my new ford mustang 5.0 litre turbo is the most fuel efficient model currently available ?
  6.  
    Posted By: MarkBennett(Not a fan of tumble driers, but I think I'm going to be to over-ruled.)
    We have one here - but then it's hard to hang washing out when it's -20C or lower outside. And no, freeze-drying of clothes does not work :wink:

    Paul in Montreal.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeDec 10th 2009 edited
     
    what's the negatives of hanging up damp clothes in a drying room or utility room ?
    Your heating system would dry them ( yes that would take a bit of energy) then there's the moisture
    would the HRV sort this out ?
  8.  
    Posted By: jamesingramwhat's the negatives of hanging up damp clothes in a drying room or utility room ?
    Your heating system would dry them ( yes that would take a bit of energy) then there's the moisture
    would the HRV sort this out ?
    True enough - and some things do get hung up. But sometimes there's just too much stuff to do that (thanks to our big-ass US-style washing machines here) so it's easier to throw is all in the tumble drier. Since electricity is so cheap here, the cost is small in the grand scheme of things. Forced air heating is not so effective at drying clothes as hanging stuff directly on radiators. You're right about the HRV, that would sort out the moisture. In fact some people in Canada in winter have "diverters" which send all the hot air out of the tumble drier into the house in an attempt to save some energy and also boost humidity levels as winter dryness is a problem here due to the cold. This work OK if you don't mind the smell of washing everywhere.

    Paul in Montreal.
  9.  
    Posted By: jamesingramwhat's the negatives of hanging up damp clothes in a drying room or utility room ?
    Your heating system would dry them ( yes that would take a bit of energy) then there's there moisture
    would the HRV sort this out ?


    You have to take into account three things:

    The spin efficiency of the washing machine (water content at end of cycle)
    Providing the latent heat of evaporation to remove the water from the clothes
    Sufficient ventilation to remove the humidity from the drying room.

    PHPP will take the first two into account, but I don't think it does for the second. I assume that it's no worse (probably better) than a shower/bath room.

    Posted By: jamesingram'A ' rated , but what does that mean , couldn't find any info on there power rating, usage


    The instruction manual for the Bosch includes power figures for various cycles (page 9):
    https://portal.bsh-partner.com/TCcustomBSH/controller/download_file?PDFOBID=tkBneekcdcso0pdmdb---MXF&UMOBID=tkBneebcdcso0pdmdb---MXF

    To get 7kg "cupboard" dry takes between 1.35kWh and 1.86kWh depending on the spin speed of the washing machine (1400rpm to 800rpm).
  10.  
    Also ,if your on 100% hydro-electric ,in your area ,I guess its mainly a cost issue
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeDec 10th 2009 edited
     
    approx .1.5 Kwh , let say 4 loads a week= 312 kwh/year

    simliar to a B rated fridge freezer i think

    one of the big domestic electricity users
  12.  
    Posted By: jamesingramapprox .1.5 Kwh , let say 4 loads a week= 312 kwh/year


    That works out at about ten quid at the electricty rates I pay. Though the ratings on the machines here show more like 900kWh a year as "typical". So thirty quid a year. Sadly not enough to worry about.

    Paul in Montreal.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeDec 10th 2009
     
    I dont think that tumble driers are at all green and we always hang clothes outside to dry -- summer and winter in the UK --- Its free!!!
    • CommentAuthorRobinB
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
     
    We have a old fashioned pulley over the bath - I made it 6' long x 4 laths and it takes a full load (UK style not US) of washing. I also then feel justified in keeping the bathroom nice and warm so I may be spoiling the eco-effect somewhat.
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
     
    I don't think that 'condensing' is a tumble dryers plus-point - 'condensing' has been a bonus (optional) facility for many years, and it's nothing to do with energy saving. Mains water is run to waste thro a heat exchanger to cool the outgoing wet air so it dumps its water content so it can exhaust into the room (if exhaust to outside air is impossible).
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
     
    I think Paul's ones probably have a small dehumidifier (heat pump) rather than using hot air to dry clothes?
  17.  
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: fostertom</cite>I don't think that 'condensing' is a tumble dryers plus-point - 'condensing' has been a bonus (optional) facility for many years, and it's nothing to do with energy saving. Mains water is run to waste thro a heat exchanger to cool the outgoing wet air so it dumps its water content so it can exhaust into the room (if exhaust to outside air is impossible).</blockquote>

    We have a condensing tumble drier which uses a heat pump, as Tony suggests. It has no water or drain connections, just a tank for collecting the condensate. We use this for filling the iron.

    That said, I prefer to hang the washing at the top of the stairs where there always seems to be surplus heat.

    David
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
     
    True, just that Paul said
    Posted By: Paul in MontrealMiele do a heatpump tumble dryer ..... This one from AEG definitely does condense
    and I wanted to point out that 'condensing' tumble driers are old hat, usually don't mean 'heatpump', and therefore usually aren't intended to save energy.
  19.  
    Tumble dryers , dishwashers , ban the lot

    mind you, less time for watching Jeremy kyle ! scrub that last comment
  20.  
    Posted By: fostertomand I wanted to point out that 'condensing' tumble driers are old hat, usually don't mean 'heatpump', and therefore usually aren't intended to save energy.
    True, but both the Miele one and the AEG one stated they had a heatpump - it was just the Miele one didn't say if it condensed the water vapour or not whereas the AEG one said it did. I would be surprised if the Miele one didn't though. That said, there are issues around preventing lint build-up on the heat exchangers in that case so maybe not all of them do try and condense the water out of the warm outgoing air.

    As for dishwashers, if you only run them when full they use less water than doing the dishes by hand.

    Paul in Montreal
  21.  
    While it would be nice to put the washing outside all the time, the weather and several young children mean that washing can take may days to dry especially in the winter. The option that I use is to use a very efficient dehumindefier with fan and moving louvers that in conjunction with a modern version (stainless steel and wood) of the ceiling mounted rack on a pulley and a towel radiator that is part of the central heating has dried 5 loads of washing in 5hours. I have measured the energy consumption at just over 175watt per hour. The dehumidifier sits on top of the small utility room worktop and the air is blow 'upwards' and in a arc so that all the washing gets a breeze to shake it every 15 seconds or so.
    I have noticed that even when there is no heating coming through the towel radiator the dehumidifier will raise the room temperature quite considerably thereby helping the clothes to dry quicker.
    The main befits of using this system seem to be that clothes dry quickly, with reduced wrinkles (due to been shaken), moisture is controlled in one location and I am sure I use a lot less energy (50-75%) than a tumble dryer.(PS I also get the condensate for the iron, car window washing and house window washing)

    I have seen here in Scotland several covered shelters for drying clothes and I am just about to move house and hope to build a carport / shelter to do the same which should extend the outdoor drying season.

    As part of my job I see architects plans from around the UK and have noticed that some planners (Peterhead in Aberdeenshire) now require that specific areas are shown both inside and outside the house as to the location of drying equipment to hang washing.

    Mark:bigsmile:
  22.  
    Hi Phillipsclan

    Posted By: Phillipsclanvery efficient dehumindefier with fan and moving louvers that in conjunction with a modern version (stainless steel and wood) of the ceiling mounted rack on a pulley


    Is this one appliance or two or three?

    Is it home made or do you have a link to somewhere selling it/them?

    Thanks,

    Peter
  23.  
    I am not sure if I am allowed to post specific names but the the dehumidfier I use is made by Mitsubishi and combines all 3 elements (Dehumdifier, fan and moving louvers)
    They are several models but the one I have is the MJ-E16VX. Having owned a couple of dehumidfiers before this one and also been in charge of the maintenace of half a dozen others in a previous job I can say that the Mitsubishi is way better in everything from size to features.
    Just try google for someone who sells them. I seem to remember that I paid about£280 for model that I use.

    The modern ceiling rack was also purchased online, it is easier to get a old fashioned of these but it would not suit our house in terms of size /style.
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
     
    Posted By: jamesingramwhat's the negatives of hanging up damp clothes in a drying room or utility room ?


    Not a problem if you have an MHRV extract vent in there to get rid of the water vapour. Can work well if you also put the boiler and freezer in there to warm it up a bit.
    • CommentAuthorjamesingram
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2009 edited
     
    Posted By: Paul in Montreal<As for dishwashers, if you only run them when full they use less water than doing the dishes by hand.


    I saw some report saying dishwashers were as environmentally friendly as bowl washing , but when I looked into it , bowl washing included rinsing everything under a running hot tap ? only daft people do that
    Even if you've got the same water consumption , then there's the energy to heat the hot water
    direct electric in the dishwasher or gas, wood ,oil, heatpump ,solar to heat the water not sure whats the best there.
    one thing I'm sure of ,the bowls easier to make and its quicker
    by the time you've loaded and unload the DW you could have washed them it all up in a bowl and left them to drain whilst you have a nice cup of tea.

    philipsclan sounds a good UK winter option / halfway house if people have the space

    cheers jim
    • CommentAuthormarktime
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2009 edited
     
    Jim, you obviously don't have the luxury of a dishwasher. :bigsmile:

    I deliberately designed out the draining board and only have a veg. prep sink. Nothing gets rinsed, it goes straight into a 450 mm wide Bosch Dishwasher on economy cycle. 30 mins and 10 l of water. The stacking cupboard is within 1200 mm so it's out of the machine and into the cupboard.

    You never see dishes on the work surface so the kitchen appearance is straight out of a magazine. :bigsmile:
  27.  
    Marktime, You'd be eating my dust in a head-to-head dishwasher/sinkwash face off !
    • CommentAuthormarktime
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
     
    No way... you've got to dry your dishes by hand. I'm long gone before you fold up the drying-up cloth. Oh, you don't dry, you let them drip? No contest my friend!
    • CommentAuthorandy500
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
     
    <blockquote><cite>Posted By: CWatters</cite><blockquote><cite>Posted By: jamesingram</cite>what's the negatives of hanging up damp clothes in a drying room or utility room ?</blockquote>

    Not a problem if you have an MHRV extract vent in there to get rid of the water vapour. Can work well if you also put the boiler and freezer in there to warm it up a bit.</blockquote>

    Yup. We've got a thermal store and boiler in the utility room - behind cupboard doors. A few high level vents out of the cupboard onto a modern style victorian lath and rope pulley thing - 1m x 6 laths = 6m of drying space. Made in Poland I believe, sold on a certain auction website.
    MHRV extract vent directly above the washing.
    Can dry a full load in 24 hours no sweat (and no damp windowcill). Works well. And free.
    •  
      CommentAuthorjoe90
    • CommentTimeDec 11th 2009
     
    I am planning to dump the tumble dryer in my new build but will have a south facing sunspace (new green word for conservatory)( not heated I hasten to add) for those days when the washing line cannot be used.

    However I would not get rid of the dishwasher but plan to feed it (along with washing machine) with solar/logburner heated water to cut the energy consumption. One problem I have not solved yet is how to dump the cold water in the pipe leg so only hot water goes into the machine??????? All answers on a postcard!

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