EPC and DEC legislation is openly flouted by many.
On a domestic level Part L for existing buildings is also often ignored, even by BCO's

Why would this be any different?

Yes, agree. Far more important than new build - which is responsible for such a low percentage of energy in use. How to do it? - Enforce the mandatory requirements we already have [Including Part L]

DEC's are a joke. A mandatory requirement for gov owned buildings which is often ignored.

EPC's also supposed to be available when a building is put up for sale - Often/ mostly? they are not. So what good are they?

Thermal upgrades necessary under Part L1B - ignored

Consequential works under ParT L2B? - I suspect also largely ignored, though I have no personal experience in upgrading comercial buildings. Anyone actually carried out consequential works? Maybe another thread.

Or we could just put on another jumper.

Ev , if we put on another jumper , what exactly do you suggest we use for goal posts ?

Yes its a quite a problem isn't it? As I see it as the "thin insulation" will have to be a multidisciplinary product. Let me explain, The majority of our housing stock is Victorian and Edwardian with a great number of 1930s houses as well. So to internally insulate them, the first step is to remove the internal plaster. So the first step is a mega sized vacuum cleaner and filtration and sealing system, so the plaster and building debris can be removed without allowing any dust to blow about inside or outside the property. Disposal means must be put in place for the debris. The electrical circuits can now be brought up to spec. if required. Gas and water circuits should also be attended to as well as wall fixed cuboards, sinks and baths. The next step is all architraving/dado rails/skirting boards must be removed, labelled and stored. All mains sockets must be removed and stored or disposed of( see later).
The wall can now be scrabbled and or sealed to allowed the composite board to be fixed with adhesive. The insulation board must be available with a planed wooden edge to it. This is so it can be fixed right up to an edge of the woodwork round a window or door reveal. These "special panels could only be 12" wide. All panels should have a rebate on all edges that can be plastered or filled so as to provide a smooth transition from panel to panel. All woodwork can now be re-fixed and re-painted.
Power points, the wires hanging out of the wall will now be short by the thickness of the panel, so special adapters will have to be produced, which are essentially short bits of insulated wire with a single insulated terminal on their end. The length of the wire is the same as the insulation board.
Bushes will have to be made which are the same thickness as the board, so to hang a sink from the wall, holes are drilled in the board, say 40mm diam, the bushes glued to wall. The bush now has to be drilled right through into the wall and the sink re-fixed with ultra long screws into wall plugs.
Just noticed, another sort of special board with a different wooden transition edge is required. This is where you have a door hanging directly of an outside wall or via a narrow door frame. The transition edge again must be wood (or plastic) and of of a tapered shape, or Ogee or such like, so it can take the insulation board to the original wall surface to butt up against the original door frame.
There are likely to be other "funnies" that will have to be coped with, such as built-in wardrobes, but the above gives an example of what is required to produce a full kit to internally insulate an old house. The above examples demonstrate that an insulation board with a hard surface and inserted machines timber is required, at the moment the board is made by firm#1, it would then be surfaced by firm #2, the timber edging would then be inserted by firm #3. Finally fixed by firm #3.
My kitchen is fully tiled on an outside 9" wall, can't think what to do here. -Can you?
I think Goverment should bang some heads together and place some sizeable orders and try out a street or two of houses in each catagory, to find out what the wrinkles are. In the above greenspec document the price of internally insulating houses is >£40 /sq.m. I wonder what the ">" means ,£100, £200? To make the task quick the available bits must be available en-masse and whats more when work starts on site, there must be a pantechnicon of every sort of panel and interfaces, so there is no chance of work being halted due to a shortage of a certain panel style, which will lead to a "workaround" by the guys on site and we all know what that will mean.
The panels actually design thickness etc must not lead to any possibility of intersticular condensation. The design and construction and precaution must be permanently fixed somewhere in the house (under the stairs?). This is so future owners know what they can and cannot do to their walls.
It'll never happen!!!
Frank

Yeh, since last night, I thought of "new" matching cornices, baths fitted against outside wall and a plethora of plumbing problems. The wastes will be particularly problematic. It would seem that a set of rubber adapters straight or cranked and jubilee clips will be required, to cope with lead/copper/pushfit/welded plastic et al.
The real problem is who has got the £1m to invent a better thin insulation?
Frank

Ban-all-sheds , good points. With external insulation you have EXACTLY the same situation, with different materials and techniques. The main problem with external insulation at present it totally destroys the appearance of houses, makes'em all like the outskirts of Bonn or Dortmund or most German towns. At least with internal insulation you WILL decorate over it, so the only desecrating is done to bare stone or brick outside walls.
Frank

My new house is stone, underneath the cement render that makes it look like a pair of 1950s council houses. No offence to council houses, but it's 150-200 years old, and if the stone was covered in anything in the past, it would have been limewash or lime render. External insulation could vastly improve it's looks, and give it a more traditional appearance.

I want a nice rough lime render with curvy edges . I just hope the concrete it seems to be encased in comes off easily without the house falling down! I'd like to use it as a demo site to show how great it is, and encourage others to do it. I'd like to divide the house back into two, so could use different techniques on each half to make it more interesting.

Anyone want to offer any good deals in return for using it for advertising?

dub it out first -- plaster it with basecoat. then use ribons of adhesive

how about external insulation? this will sort the thermal bridging at internal partitions too.

What would you think if all those wonderful Streets of houses built with London stocks (yellow bricks) were replaced with a uniform white rough cast finish. Also The details such as curved window heads, stone cills, and other embellishments would go. I think the major problem with external insulation is the nigh on impossibility of water sealing along the top of it and around window and door reveals. It will be OK for 5 to 10 years but then will get water logged with the resulting loss of U value and dampness within the building.
Cliff, buy yourself a disc cutter, a diamond disc and a face mask and hack of the high spots. I've done it, not a very pleasant job and only you will get any satisfaction from doing it. You get the boards in line in exactly the same way as dot'n dab plaster board, its a building not a rocket ship.
Frank

We shouldn't be looking at one size fits all solutions, but doing what's appropriate for a particular building. In the case of houses with plain exteriors, and houses that have had their external appearance ruined already, external insulation is a good option, and could greatly improve the appearance of the house.

For houses with interesting external features, maybe it's not the best option, and other methods should be looked at. There may come a time though, when energy is so expensive or in short supply, that the welfare of the occupants is more important that the external appearance of the house. That doesn't mean it has to be made ugly, just different.

Interstitial condensation is much more likely to form on or near the outside of the insulation if at all.

Then point with lime mortar and use an insulation that will allow water vapour through.

QED --- tony

Tony I was basing that comment on the fact that you are trying to fix brick slips to expanded stainless steel imbeded in or glued to foam, you will have to use OPC or more adhesive so I would have thought that the outside of the wall would have had minimum permeability so any air leaks past the foam would result in IC. With a loose or soft insulation, there would be problems keeping it in place and framing would be required to hold the stainless steel mesh or whatever surface the slips would be fixed to. I have just thought of a nice outside sub-surface, the cementatious board (about 4mm thick) used for make fire register plates, if it was pierced by a 3mm diam hole every 10mm. Then fixing the slips to it, the holes would be a good key for the adhesive or mortar, pointing the whole surface with lime should result in a partially breathing finish. As with all my suggestions the major component is not yet made.
Frank