Green Building Forum - Triple glazed windows Wed, 29 Apr 2026 01:11:53 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5456#Comment_5456 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5456#Comment_5456 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 13:56:10 +0100 Mike George Posted By: fostertom
Posted By: Mike Georgecheaply-coated raw outgoing-resistive
Is there such a coated glass? what's it called? Maybe just 3G plain glass wd do it.

Tas would allow these options to be tested, though I have not done this to date.]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5457#Comment_5457 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5457#Comment_5457 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:22:09 +0100 fostertom Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5458#Comment_5458 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5458#Comment_5458 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:34:06 +0100 Mike George Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5459#Comment_5459 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5459#Comment_5459 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 14:57:30 +0100 fostertom
Can 3D models be input from AutoCad, or only 2D that you then have to build the 3D on?]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5460#Comment_5460 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5460#Comment_5460 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:17:59 +0100 fostertom Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5461#Comment_5461 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5461#Comment_5461 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 15:35:14 +0100 Mike George
The drawing interface is very crude in my opinion]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5464#Comment_5464 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5464#Comment_5464 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 16:04:21 +0100 fostertom Posted By: Mike GeorgeThe drawing interface is very crude in my opinionHopefully this could be done in CAD]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5467#Comment_5467 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5467#Comment_5467 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 16:40:38 +0100 Mike George Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5468#Comment_5468 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5468#Comment_5468 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 16:51:02 +0100 fostertom Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5473#Comment_5473 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5473#Comment_5473 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 18:39:45 +0100 Mike George
Anyway not trying to put you off as I think tas is an excellent package overall. Regarding ArchiCAD I have also used it for some years now and there is absolutely no compatibility with AutoCAD [we are talking apples and oranges] The best 3D CAD software I have used is without doubt REVIT which is completely compatible with AutoCAD. If that is an option for tas then it will be a very powerful package indeed.]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5475#Comment_5475 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5475#Comment_5475 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:05:16 +0100 fostertom
Their marketing director's going to arrange to give me demo and I'll gather a few guys for the occasion, view possibly to share a multi-seat deal to reduce cost - anyone interested (Exeter)?]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5477#Comment_5477 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5477#Comment_5477 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:09:07 +0100 fostertom Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5478#Comment_5478 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5478#Comment_5478 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 20:22:42 +0100 Mark Siddall
Thermal Modelling:
The environmental modeling tool Ecotect can be used with ArchiCAD. Ecotect is not as advanced as TAS in that it relies upon steady state modeling rather than dynamic modelling.
PassivHaus Planning Package is about as detailed as they get whilst remaining architect "friendly." It's a highly evolved steady state modeling tool that has a proven track record i.e. most of the PassivHaus projects.

Back to the glazing:
Tom, as you note the principle purpose behind Low E is to reflect long wave radiation and admit shortwave radiation. The Low E coating doesn't "know" where the long wave radiation comes from it just reflects it, consequently Low E does act selectively and reduce g-value as it reflects some external long wave radiation. Once external short wave radiation has traveled through the glazing it changes to long wave. This is then partially reflected (and thus partially retained) by the glazing and low E. The lower the emissivity the more long wave radiation is reflected (applies to inside and out).
I'm certainly no expert in glazing or low E so I can't talk about the properties of low E in any great detail beyond what I've said (i.e. I can't comment on the wave lengths over which various low E coatings are selective etc. as Tom (or was it Biff) asked earlier).

Mark]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5482#Comment_5482 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5482#Comment_5482 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 21:09:42 +0100 fostertom
It would be great to have a get-together in the context of some serious energy modelling - maybe they'd put on an extra-good session if there were several of us.

But PassivHaus Planning Package - www.passivhaus.org.uk/index.jsp?id=672 - £120 + VAT! How does it compare, Mark?
"whilst PHPP includes a worksheet for calculating the U-values of components it is not sufficiently accurate for UK purposes as it does not adhere to BRE document Conventions for U-value calculations (2006 Edition). Suitable U-value calculator software packages include BRE's own U-value calculator, or other software packages such as BuildDesks free U-value calculator."

Elsewhere on Passivhaus site:
Windows (glazing and frames, combined) should have U-Values not exceeding 0.80 W/m²/K, with solar heat-gain coefficients around 50%. The Solar Heat Gain Co-efficient (SHGC) is provided as a guide, it can be adjusted for glazing on different facades. This can help either reduce heat loss on sheltered sides/ north facing glazing, or alternatively help to reduce the likelihood of overheating when specified in conjunction with other features/strategies (please note that the SHGC of a window usually decreases as the U-value improves).]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5490#Comment_5490 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5490#Comment_5490 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 22:56:04 +0100 Mike George Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5493#Comment_5493 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5493#Comment_5493 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 23:20:35 +0100 fostertom Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5495#Comment_5495 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5495#Comment_5495 Thu, 09 Aug 2007 23:52:20 +0100 Mark Siddall I have been in contact with the BRE and an experienced PassivHaus architect about this. Basically PHPPs U-value calculator requires more care when using it i.e. its not as idiot proof hence BRE statement "does not adhere to BRE document Conventions for U-value calculations (2006 Edition) " For this reason the BRE prefer people to use one of the two pieces of software that they approve of. I have been reassured that it does calculate to the appropriate ISO standard.

>>>Elsewhere on Passivhaus site:
and? (not sure what point you are making.) This agrees with what I've been saying.

Mark]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5503#Comment_5503 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5503#Comment_5503 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:46:03 +0100 fostertom Posted By: Mark SiddallThis agrees with what I've been sayingYes me too, just corroborating.

Is PPHP @£150 a full alternative to Tas @£4000, or more limited, or something different?]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5504#Comment_5504 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5504#Comment_5504 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 09:48:05 +0100 Mike George Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5516#Comment_5516 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5516#Comment_5516 Fri, 10 Aug 2007 13:17:59 +0100 Mark Siddall Fair enough. Suspected that was the case.

Mike
2D, but that's okay for less complex projects such as houseing (compared to schools offices etc.)

Mark]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5708#Comment_5708 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5708#Comment_5708 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 13:42:06 +0100 fostertom
However, without exception the 3G units offered are only 2x12mm gap, not the optimum 2x16mm, even tho' same cos offer 1x16mm in their 2G alternatives. Today got an explanation from Tanums UK: their top-spec 3G units even at 2x12mm are more insulative than the timber frame. So next step is thermal-break timber frames; at that point broader opening sashes will come in, enabling 2x16mm 3G units.
Posted By: fostertomWhen extra-special low E coatings and/or 3G result in super-low U values, does that or does it not include the expectation of solar gain reducing nett seasonal heat loss, giving a lower 'effective' U value?
Tanums answered: no it does not; the U-values quoted are for simple outgoing heat loss, without incorporation of expectated solar gain.]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5710#Comment_5710 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5710#Comment_5710 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:10:27 +0100 Johan Posted By: fostertom
However, without exception the 3G units offered are only 2x12mm gap, not the optimum 2x16mm, even tho' same cos offer 1x16mm in their 2G alternatives. Today got an explanation from Tanums UK: their top-spec 3G units even at 2x12mm are more insulative than the timber frame. So next step is thermal-break timber frames; at that point broader opening sashes will come in, enabling 2x16mm 3G units.There is one Swedish supplier on the UK market using a 4-16-4-16-4 build with Argon filling, they achive an over all U-value of 0.9W/m2K. The timber frame is 105mm deap though.

I'm not sure what is considered advertising here so I'll just put the link their webpage here and you'll have to find your way aorund yourself :cool:: http://www.elitfonster.se

In Sweden they are now using the A-G energi efficiency scale for windows, where 0.9=A and 1.5=G...]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5712#Comment_5712 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5712#Comment_5712 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:28:31 +0100 fostertom Possibles: Boyland, Dream (from China!), Whitaker
In development: Fitzroy, A-plus, Howarth (clued-up - manufs of the Supply-Air Window)

Can't do 3G cos include: Mumford & Wood, Allan Bros, Arden, Broxwood (Mestervindu), Ecomerchant, Jeld-Wen, Jewson, Magnet, Premdor etc, Nor-Dan, Rationel, Vrogum

So, not a lot of choice. Am I missing any, like super-windows from Canada, Germany etc?]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5715#Comment_5715 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5715#Comment_5715 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 14:36:25 +0100 fostertom Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5722#Comment_5722 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5722#Comment_5722 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:07:17 +0100 Johan
I just had a look at the Swedish documentation, maybe I should've made sure the English one was available as well...sorry... :wink:
Anyway, it's the Elit Extreme window I mean. Free transalation to English says 4-16-4-16-4, Argon fill, warm edge spacers, one low-E glass, one low-E with sun protection film glass and (I assume) the third glass is plain then. It'd be Pilkington glass for sure.

Here's the English fact sheet: http://www.elitfonster.se/Archive/Documents/Produktblad/Axh-en.pdf

Personally I'm not sure such high perfromance windows are of any use in the UK (except maybe the outher Hebredies then...). You'll just get problems with condesation on the outside, etc.

Tom,
Many thanks for the UK contact for Traryd, been trying to poke a quote out of the Traryd export sales manager for some time...with little success...may have better luck with Rembrand. They make some very good looking windows (personal opinion!). :smile:]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5723#Comment_5723 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5723#Comment_5723 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 15:20:02 +0100 fostertom Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5737#Comment_5737 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5737#Comment_5737 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 20:43:50 +0100 biffvernon Posted By: fostertom
Can't do 3G cos include: Mumford & Wood, Allan Bros, Arden, Broxwood (Mestervindu), Ecomerchant, Jeld-Wen, Jewson, Magnet, Premdor etc, Nor-Dan, Rationel, Vrogum

Probably more of a 'won't do' than a 'can't do'. There's nothing technically difficult about making a unit with three layers of glass and putting it into a windowframe. If someone asked me for one I'd say sure but I doubt it's worth it.]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5739#Comment_5739 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5739#Comment_5739 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 21:35:50 +0100 fostertom Posted By: biffvernonbut I doubt it's worth itWhy?]]> Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5743#Comment_5743 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5743#Comment_5743 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 22:27:28 +0100 biffvernon Triple glazed windows https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5745#Comment_5745 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=527&Focus=5745#Comment_5745 Wed, 15 Aug 2007 23:31:15 +0100 Terry Regarding your list of companies who cant do 3G you include Vrogum.
I happen to have a Vrogum catalogue in front of me and in it they detail 'Ewitherm 0.8' and 'Ewitherm 1.0' inward opening doors which acording to the sectional drawings consist of 3G (total glasing depth 44 and 36). The frames and sashes are all made of spruce with cork thermal breaks. ) ).8 and 1.0 refer to whole unit u-values aparently.
Catalogue is in english and obtained from UK distributer so presumably these are offered in the UK??]]>