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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

PLEASE NOTE: A download link for Volume 1 will be sent to you by email and Volume 2 will be sent to you by post as a book.

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  1.  
    Spring is here and my home office is already getting uncomfortably warm. The office has a sloped, south-facing, concrete-tiled roof. I'm pretty sure that it overheats on sunny days largely because the black tiles absorb lots of sunlight and the insulation in the ~100mm gap between the tiles and the plasterboard isn't great. In a year or two I'll rip down the plasterboard ceiling and install some decent insulation up there. But in the mean while, I'm wondering if I can simply climb onto the roof directly above the office and paint it with a white gloss to reflect as much sunlight as possible?

    Are there any legal or structural issues I need to worry about? The study's roof is not visible from the street. The only people who can see the roof are my direct neighbours and of course I'll discuss my plans before I start any work. Will the paint prevent the tiles from breathing sufficiently? (do concrete tiles need to breath?!) Any recommendations on which paint I should use? (might this be a good opportunity to try some "insulation" paint with high emissivity?).

    If I wanted to paint my entire roof white, would I need to get planning consent?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2010
     
    A better idea would be to insulate it now!
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2010
     
    Cover it in tin foil, shiny side out. If it becomes an issue with someone then it is easy to remove. And then insulate, insulate, insulate.
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2010
     
    How much heat do you have to throw at it in winter?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2010 edited
     
    Tony



    Posted By: tonyHow much heat do you have to throw at it in winter?


    Probably the same amount that has to be expelled in summer:devil:
    • CommentAuthorCWatters
    • CommentTimeApr 10th 2010
     
    Don't paint it. Just think what it will look like in a year or so all that peeling paint needing to be scrapped off. What a nightmare that would be.
    • CommentAuthorchuckey
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2010
     
    Have you not got eave vents and ridge vents? on the roof. I fear painting "concrete" tiles will lead to tears as moss forms in the crevices in winter and the sanded face of the tiles falls off. I like the idea of tin foil but I am doubtful if you can fix it on without the winter gales ripping bits of it off.
    Frank
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 11th 2010
     
    Try tinfoil on half a dozen tiles and see how it lasts, get the thicker 'Christmas' stuff.

    Personally I would not to do it as it is really a re-roofing job but would like some one else to try it out and report back:bigsmile:
  2.  
    Thanks for all the replies!

    I would love to insulate it now but that just isn't practical unfortunately; we're planning to renovate the upstairs in a year or two so I'd prefer to do the insulation then. The room isn't heated much in winter to be honest; I just put on more jumpers.

    How would you suggest I attach the silver foil to the tiles? The only secure yet removable way I can think of is to take each tile off, one by one, and wrap the foil round the tile. But that sounds rather labour intensive. Any other ideas?
  3.  
    Would it be possible to attach thin ply or similar to the roof that has been foiled before fitting onto the tiles? Foil work on the floor sounds easier to me. Only danger is that the ply will detach itself in the winter!!!!! Dont kill any passers by with flying foil backed ply!:cry:
  4.  
    Yeah, I hear it's considered bad manners to kill strangers ;)
  5.  
    Aerosol spray glue - like that 3M stuff for photos.
  6.  
    Not for ply, surely. I'd be worried about the surface of the conc tiles. Some 'sand out', so you'd be sticking to nothing solid.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 13th 2010
     
    DIY is labourious and I always assume that people use all necessary precautions when working. Contact adhesive looks like a reasonable idea and probably easier than any other.
  7.  
    So it sounds like the most durable, safe and reversible solution is something like:

    * remove each tile one-by-one
    * apply some contact adhesive to the tile
    * wrap the tile in silver foil push the foil into the adhesive
    * replace the tile

    Does that sound about right?

    If the foil blows away in the wind then it wont cause too much damage, unlikely large sheets of ply. Plus the silver foil shouldn't rot.

    Then if the neighbours complain you can always remove the silver foil, especially if you use the contact adhesive on the back of the tile.

    I'd be worried silver foil would rip too easily. Are there any cost-effective laminates where two thin plastic sheets sandwich a silver layer? The only such products I've found are expensive and too thick. Or maybe it's best just to use white plastic sheeting rather than silver (not quite as reflective as silver but a lot better than black tiles).
    • CommentAuthorevan
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2010
     
    Want to reflect solar energy from your roof using paint? What you need is solar reflective roof paint! Does exactly what it says on the tin :tongue:

    http://www.wickes.co.uk/Solar-Reflective-Aluminium-Roofing-Paint/invt/191214?source=123_4
    •  
      CommentAuthorfostertom
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2010
     
    As it apparently doesn't matter that the roof's appearance is changed, how about overcladding with corrugated iron? No, I'm serious, great stuff.
    •  
      CommentAuthorbetterroof
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2010
     
    stick a diy flat plate on it, a proper bodged one, just for now, and use some of that energy!
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2010
     
    Having thought about it for a while now I could suggest a large white tarpaulin held down with old planks?

    If it were mine I would take off the top row of tiles cut a hole on the sarking and fill the voids with polystyrene beads.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 14th 2010 edited
     
    Posted By: betterroofstick a diy flat plate on it, a proper bodged one, just for now, and use some of that energy!


    Not such a bad idea really.



    Posted By: SteamyTeabut would like some one else to try it out and report back


    So who is game for this? Could try it on a tile on a polystyrene box with a thermometer in it next to one without any coating, see what the difference really is.
    Could try that myself, better go looking for tiles tomorrow morning as I think it is going to be sunny.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 20th 2010 edited
     
    Finally got around to it: Up to 23 C less temp by using tin foil today. It all goes into the shade at about 12:30PM
      Solar Tile.jpg
  8.  
    Wow! Now there's an excellent public service! Many thanks. If only all forum threads included some serious empirical studies ;)

    The silver foil has a remarkable effect.

    Any thoughts on what effect a gloss or matte white finish would have, as compared to silver?

    One worry about the foil is that neighbours will think I'm a paranoid conspiracy theorist protecting myself from alien mind control.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2010
     
    And your digital radio will stop working! There are others on here that can help with the conspiracies I am sure.

    I intend to paint them and see what happens. I was amazed by the difference in this relatively lower power application.

    More to follow in time.
    • CommentAuthordecor8uk
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2010 edited
     
    May i recommend a product from Denmark that we have started to distribute called "ClimateCooler"
    It is a thermal roof primer and a heat reflective topcoat for domestic roof tiles, commercial felt/bitumen, steel, cladded, & asbestos flat roofs.
    ClimateCooler has been independently tested by the Danish Technological Institute for it's thermal and heat reflective values.
    The primer insulates to the same value as 1/3rd Rockwool insulation and the topcoat reflects over 70% of heat.
    Therefore keeps buildings warmer in winter & cooler in summer. Tests show that it can reduce your inside building temperature by 15degC - lowering cooling costs!!
    1 tonne of C02 emissions are reduced year on year for every 200m2 coated in Climate Cooler.
    It also has a life expectancy in excess of 10 yrs!
    If you require any further info, get in touch
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2010
     
    Decor8uk

    Any chance of a sample so I can try it out?
    • CommentAuthormarktime
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2010
     
    "It all goes into the shade at about 12:30PM"

    Surely the reduction is due to shading although there will be a contribution from the foil. Shading is the most effective way to reduce insolation and it may be what is happening here. 23 deg drop for foil alone is suspect.
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2010
     
    Mark

    The 23 C (ish) is a peak temperature, not had a chance to fully analyse the data yet but I will. Apart from the the radiation and external temperature the two tiles (or the void beneath them) fit in with Newtons Law of Cooling. I agree that the best way is to shade, but this can be a bit tricky on a roof of a house.

    I am going to do a few more tests to see where it leads, in fact I am just off to get some more tiles and insulation now to make a better test rig up. More to follow.
    • CommentAuthormarktime
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2010 edited
     
    Effective shading of Landrovers used in the Kalahari had an external additional roof mounted approx 100 mm above the roof and open all round worked extremely well. You had shading and air movement in motion or shading when stationery. The top roof was painted white.

    In tests on thermocouples at room temperature (20 deg C), in a lab enclosing them with a bright silver tube or matt black tube changed the absolute measurement by approx 1 deg C.
    • CommentAuthordecor8uk
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2010
     
    Steamy Tea ,

    We have a rig made up with a heat lamp heating two "mock up buildings" one tile is coated with BLACK ClimateCooler the other coated with a reputable BLACK roof tile coating.
    Black is obviously the biggest conducter of heat so if it was coated another colour the heat refelectancy would be even greater!
    We have thermometers inside each "building" and after an hour the inside tempersture of ClimateCooler reads 28 deg C the non ClimateCooler reads 43deg C !!
    You could put your hands on the ClimateCooler tile but the standard coated tile is too hot to touch!

    A case study has been done at "The Clarion Hotel" Copenahgen . They expect the project to have paid for itself in 2 years due to cooling savings in their air con ! Their roof was 5500m2 and will reduce their CO2 emissions by 27 tonnes year on year - the equivalent of driving 105,000 miles in a car!!

    It costs 5 times more to cool a building than to heat one!

    I can forward you a copy if you would like?
    •  
      CommentAuthorSteamyTea
    • CommentTimeApr 21st 2010
     
    decor8uk

    Yes I would like to read that, thanks.
   
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