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Green Building Bible, Fourth Edition
Green Building Bible, fourth edition (both books)
These two books are the perfect starting place to help you get to grips with one of the most vitally important aspects of our society - our homes and living environment.

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    • CommentAuthorOIMO
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2007 edited
     
    Our plans to move house and undertake a significant green re-modeling of the new property have fallen through. So we are fixing our current abode ready for the winter!

    We have decided to top up our loft insulation and also insulate under the two reception room suspended floors. The front reception room is above a cellar that is typically in the temperature range 8C-12C and has two grilled ventilation 'windows'. The positive side of this is that access from below is available, however the ceiling of the cellar is lath and plaster and damaged in some places and sagging in others. I suspect the easiest way to do this would be remove the lath and plaster, insert some mineral wool batts and replace the ceiling with a plaster board of some sort, perhaps a damp tolerant one? However I am not keen on mineral wool so can anyone suggest an alternative solution?

    The second reception room also has a cellar beneath it with three ventilation bricks into it, however the access has been bricked up so access from beneath the floor is not an option. Also before this cellar was sealed they nailed a canvas under all of the floor presumably to try and reduce drafts (with only limited success I have to say). Rather than take up all the original floorboards is it possible to drill each one and blow some insulation in on top of the canvas?

    In both of these situations I expect the insulation will come into contact with the walls at each end of the joists, so will damp be an issue and if so does that rule out most of the 'natural' insulations?
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2007
     
    You could use sheep's wool under the lounge if you can afford it or get it from the sheep. I would use glass quilt. cellulose overhead is too difficult.

    Under the other room if you inject it will have to be fibres but it will be difficult to persuade them to do it.

    There will be no problems with the insulation in contact with walls as the walls will be built using lime mortar -- remember if re pointed to use lime again.
  1.  
    Do you have to replace the ceiling? Better move, from the point of view of ventilation for the timber, is to retain the insulation with netting - lightweight 'strawberry' netting will do. I hate mineral wool too. Alternatives are (relatively non-eco) plastic foam, or sheep's wool, recycled cotton or hemp.

    Good luck.

    Nick
    • CommentAuthorOIMO
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2007 edited
     
    Posted By: tony...if you inject it will have to be fibres but it will be difficult to persuade them to do it.

    There will be no problems with the insulation in contact with walls as the walls will be built using lime mortar -- remember if re pointed to use lime again.


    Could I inject warmcel?

    I forgot to mention that the bricks in the cellar under the lounge are all white glazed, any issues there? I assume a high RH is not an issue, the cellar does get damp.

    Stuart
    • CommentAuthorOIMO
    • CommentTimeAug 30th 2007
     
    Posted By: Nick ParsonsDo you have to replace the ceiling? Better move, from the point of view of ventilation for the timber, is to retain the insulation with netting - lightweight 'strawberry' netting will do. I hate mineral wool too. Alternatives are (relatively non-eco) plastic foam, or sheep's wool, recycled cotton or hemp.

    Good luck.

    Nick


    No real reason to replace the ceiling, other than to allow it to be painted white to reflect light.

    I like the idea of netting are there any risks to the insulation with damp air in that scenario?

    Stuart
    • CommentAuthorOIMO
    • CommentTimeSep 15th 2007
     
    I have just been down in the cellar again and look up in a section where the cellar 'ceiling' is missing. I revealed a gas pipe and some mains cable. Both of which had condensation on, so given that this is pretty dry weather - will this cause the insulation problems? I am leaning towards Hemp or Flax Batts kept in place with a mesh suspension.
  2.  
    Shouldn't cause a prob, but pull the cables out so they are not wholly buried within the insulation, or be prepared to de-rate the circuit by up to 50%.
  3.  
    Hi OIMO. I would be concerned about the 'condensation' on the pipes and cables. Are you sure that it is condensation? Water will generally condense on cold materials and in areas of bad air circulation. If it is condensation you must have water penetrating into the cellar from somewhere, and if this is happening in the Summer months, it will surely be much worse in the Winter

    I would be very cautious abou insulating between the floor joists in the conditions you describe. It is crucial that there is sufficient sub-floor ventilation to reduce the moisture content which is clearly there. Dry rot is a real risk in wet humid cellars with timber floors - ventilation is usually the easiest way to avoid the nasty mushroom pizzas
    • CommentAuthorOIMO
    • CommentTimeSep 16th 2007
     
    Hi Mike George, Yes, it is condensation and yes the cellar does suffer from water ingress. In fact after some, but not all, heavy rain storms it even pools on the floor!

    OIMO
    • CommentAuthortony
    • CommentTimeSep 16th 2007
     
    Check out your rain water pipes and drains/soak aways -- for sure they are blocked or not working properly this is a common state of affairs.

    Once sorted then the cellar will be dry and you will be safe to insulate.
    • CommentAuthorSimonH
    • CommentTimeSep 16th 2007
     
    RE: The room you can't access.. my brother in law has exactly the same situation you described. Except where the wall had been bricked up to remove the access an original arch was still present. So we took out enough to gain access to the 2nd room, and found it had been used as a soil tip. Nice. And by soil tip I mean where the victorians used to dump their toilet waste, a combination of poo & ash from the fires according to my wife who is a social history curator. Anyway - we dug it all out (as someone would have been paid to originally - with a horse and cart outside!) Not too bad as it had completely decomposed in to what looked like sand. He then insulated from below, put up plaster to keep it all tidy and to stop tall people like me banging their heads on the beams. He was thinking of a cellar conversion, but the footings are very irregular and had a quote of £30,000 for underpinning.
    • CommentAuthorOIMO
    • CommentTimeSep 17th 2007
     
    Hi SimonH, We still have the arch in the wall outside too, however when the kicthen floor was relaid a few years back the builders poured concrete into the old steps because the previous fill of loose bricks etc had settled so I don't fancy my chances of digging it out to get access.

    We know it still has its full height underneath as when we had a timber survey after finding dry rot at the other end of the house (caused by the previous residents leaking washing machine) they used a mirror on a stick through an access hole to view the space. So access from below is a non starter in that room, unless I cut through a floor joist, which I have no intention of doing.
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