Sun, 17 May 2026 01:42:13 +0100 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/ Lussumo Vanilla 1.0.3 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88196#Comment_88196 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88196#Comment_88196 Tue, 31 Aug 2010 16:00:17 +0100 DamonHD
BTW, I think that that was report 7! B^>

Rgds

Damon]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88236#Comment_88236 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88236#Comment_88236 Wed, 01 Sep 2010 12:41:56 +0100 topher
First apologies for two reports number 6, so this one becomes number 8.

Day 8, bright and early (8.15 am) Dominique and Pierre are working again. Both primary and secondary circuits are connected and have held their pressure. Final electrical connections are being made. The Nibe 3 phase models have current sensors for the incoming mains, so that if the potential consumption of the heat pump would exceed the max of the supply, the heat pump changes its phase distribution or waits till the house load has fallen. The current transformers have to fitted to the three incoming power cables, in my case a very full consumer unit (old style with fuses) does not have enough space. I am considering having it replaced which would give me circuit breakers and space for the current transformers. I expect it will be very expensive. I may not do it.

Now it is lunch time and the heat pump has been powered up. Everything seems to be working except the connection to the room thermostat. The control interface is really good, a full colour display and intuitive controls. Dominique says it is far better than another well known make. At first power up, the system takes the installer through a commissioning procedure. The compressor has run briefly and in the limited time available to listen, I expect no problem with noise. The two circulating pumps are proportionally controlled, so no adjustments are needed. As I type the primary (bore hole) pump is running to get rid of all the air. My current monitor is showing 155 watts.

So far I am very impressed with the Nibe product, although the manual does not correspond with the screen images - usual software documentation problem.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88405#Comment_88405 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88405#Comment_88405 Fri, 03 Sep 2010 12:17:53 +0100 topher
After nine and a half days work, it is done. Dominique and Pierre have left. You may think that 9.5 days is a long time, it is, but it was all solid work. Installing in the attic of an old (200 years) farmhouse was difficult. A new build would be much easier.

The Nibe heat pump is really excellent. It has many features, all easily controlled from a user-friendly colour display. Each screen has its own help screens. One very minor negative point - I had asked for a room thermostat. Normally the user adjusts the heap pump controls to get the desired temperature. The room thermostat with colour screen, would not communicate with the heat pump. Reason - down level firmware in the heat pump. Very quickly the Atlantic (French distributor of Nibe), sent me the correct level programme on the internet. It was transferred to the heat pump with a USB key. Cool eh? Perhaps the next generation will be connected to the internet, it would give remote update, remote control, and error reporting.

Last night I set the thermostat to 30 degrees to try and get the heat pump to start. It did. We had a hot night as underfloor heating has huge thermal inertia. It is very quiet. My concern about the floor of the attic space where it is installed, acting as a sounding board to the rooms below is totally dismissed. You have to stand in front of it to know it is working.

Both circulation pumps are software controlled. At the moment both are running 24/7 for 10 days to get all the air out of the circulating water. After 10 days they will return to automatic operation.

In late November, when it will be colder outside, Dominique will return to check that the system is working correctly under heating conditions. At present with outside temperatures of 17 to 26 degrees, it is doing nothing.

My plan to pay 40% at the start of work, 50% at installation complete, and 10% at the beginning of winter when correct working can be proved, seems to be working well.

It is really dead obvious, but when you experience something directly, it reinforces the well known rule - "The more preparation you do, the better will be the result." I wish I had learned more about the bore hole technology and discovered spacers. I also wish I had thought more about making the ground good after the trenches had been filled. If I had, I could have been more precise with agreements with the hole driller and the heat pump installer.

I have a few pictures that may be of interest. I hope to put them up in the next few days.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88428#Comment_88428 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88428#Comment_88428 Fri, 03 Sep 2010 17:47:35 +0100 fridihem https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88430#Comment_88430 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88430#Comment_88430 Fri, 03 Sep 2010 20:11:26 +0100 crusoe I have used Nibe and IVT (Ice Energy - and now WB I believe) and found them very satisfactory. I don't like all the integrated controls, but that's a personal thing.

Are you talking Legionnaires' disease here? Most of the heat pumps I install have capacity, sans immersion, to raise temps above 60 C, some above 65 C. Is this the recycling you are talking about?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88433#Comment_88433 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88433#Comment_88433 Fri, 03 Sep 2010 21:50:39 +0100 DamonHD
That was really very informative and I hope you will keep us posted with pros and cons during the winter.

Rgds

Damon]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88439#Comment_88439 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88439#Comment_88439 Sat, 04 Sep 2010 08:26:59 +0100 topher
Tell me how is Nibe considered in Sweden, is it the best make? You know we Brits watch Wallander on TV, well it was very pleasing to see in one episode an advertisement for Nibe in the background. I am very impressed with the number of geothermal installations you have. Here in France the air/water systems are popular with new builds having water/water configurations.

I don't use the heat pump for hot water, I might add it later. Surely the heating for hot water is a closed system with heat exchanger, I don't understand how Legionnaires is a problem.

The Nibe for the French market is specially prepared for Atlantic the sole French distributor. For the other European countries Germany, UK and so on it is a standard product with the appropriate language changes.

Damon, Thanks for your kind comments. I will make regular posts as things change. I have to sort out the CurrentCost product. When the compressor is running, the CurrentCost shows over 5 KW. The rated load of the heat pump is 4.25 Kw. I think it is the inductive load giving an incorrect reading of true power. If any one can advise on this I would be pleased.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88447#Comment_88447 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88447#Comment_88447 Sat, 04 Sep 2010 10:28:03 +0100 SteamyTea Posted By: topherI don't understand how Legionnaires is a problem.

It isn't, but a ridiculous amount of speculation and fuss made about it. Your kitchen is a much greater health risk. I hesitate to use the term infinitely more dangerous (reading a maths book about infinity at the moment) but as there has never been any reported cases of legionaries caused by domestic hot water you only need one incident in the kitchen to make the risk infinitely improbable.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88451#Comment_88451 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88451#Comment_88451 Sat, 04 Sep 2010 12:41:54 +0100 DamonHD
Rgds

Damon]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88457#Comment_88457 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88457#Comment_88457 Sat, 04 Sep 2010 15:04:23 +0100 marktime https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88458#Comment_88458 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88458#Comment_88458 Sat, 04 Sep 2010 15:17:53 +0100 SteamyTea ]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88467#Comment_88467 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88467#Comment_88467 Sat, 04 Sep 2010 20:33:56 +0100 djh Posted By: SteamyTeareading a maths book about infinity at the moment
about aleph 0 or the more general concept?]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88472#Comment_88472 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88472#Comment_88472 Sat, 04 Sep 2010 23:53:50 +0100 SteamyTea https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88474#Comment_88474 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88474#Comment_88474 Sun, 05 Sep 2010 07:01:21 +0100 DamonHD
Rgds

Damon]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88475#Comment_88475 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88475#Comment_88475 Sun, 05 Sep 2010 07:31:45 +0100 fridihem Well, we do make a few good things over here, perhaps the reason why our trade surplus is so good, and NO, I don’t drive a BMW, it’s a Merc.

Regarding the Legionaires disease, Im am going by what my neighbours tells me, I do believe he had a relative who died from it , so perhaps he is worried.

TOPHER, Nibe is rated very highly here in Sweden, best or best, I don’t know, but many do install these makes in their homes. The number I quoted was not ALL geothermic but the total nr of heat pumps. Most city, town and village dwellers are connected to their local CHP plants, which supply more than 50% of the Swedish homes and businesses with heating and hot water]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88505#Comment_88505 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88505#Comment_88505 Sun, 05 Sep 2010 20:28:32 +0100 topher
I have a cunning plan to adjust my CurrentCost device to record the 'correct' power consumption. I have a digital electricity meter. I believe it will show the current per phase (I have a 3 phase supply) and the Kw per phase. So if I turn everything in the house off, except the compressor, and read the power and/or current at the EDF meter. Then if I adjust the voltage used by the CurrentCost device so that it is showing about the same value, it will be a reasonably accurate measure.

The CurrentCost can only measure the consumption of the heat pump, so it will be reasonably accurate. I believe the heat pump will be either off or on. During the 'on' cycle it starts the bore hole circulation pump (say 120 watts) 20 seconds before the compressor. Then with the compressor and both circulation pumps on the underfloor water is heated. Then when the compressor goes off, everything goes off, and the power is zero.

So what do you think, will this give me a reasonably accurate measure of power?

Regards,............Topher.

]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88510#Comment_88510 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88510#Comment_88510 Sun, 05 Sep 2010 21:44:20 +0100 Paul in Montreal Posted By: topherSo what do you think, will this give me a reasonably accurate measure of power?

No, a compressor is an inductive load so the readings will not be accurate (though maybe your meter accounts for this). Further, a compressor is not an on/off device - its power consumption depends on the load and that depends on the entering water temperature of the ground loop and the temperature differential across the output side. The power consumption can vary considerably, especially in the first few minutes of operation as everything comes into equilibrium.

Paul in Montreal.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88522#Comment_88522 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88522#Comment_88522 Mon, 06 Sep 2010 07:32:00 +0100 DamonHD
However, your EdF meter will give you a true power/energy reading as you suggest, so you ought to be able to get reasonably close using the CC meter to compute a 'delta' in between meter readings for example.

You'll just have to suck it and see! Again let us know how it goes.

Rgds

Damon]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88523#Comment_88523 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88523#Comment_88523 Mon, 06 Sep 2010 09:21:18 +0100 topher
I have 230 V 3 phase, not 440 v 3 phase as in UK. Are the meters different for 230volt and 440 volt?

Regards,...........Topher.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88526#Comment_88526 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88526#Comment_88526 Mon, 06 Sep 2010 10:18:53 +0100 DamonHD
I'd start my search with RS (rswww.com) and Farnell and Google generally.

I see no reason why you'd have to buy from the UK.

In the UK however you'd be required to have a grown-up *fit* it for you I think (Part P). You may take your own views on local laws and costs, natch.

Rgds

Damon]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88664#Comment_88664 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88664#Comment_88664 Wed, 08 Sep 2010 10:42:01 +0100 topher
The weather is cooling here and I have found the heat pump has been coming on at night. I have reduced the thermostat setting to try and prevent this.

Using power monitors is of no use in measuring real power consumption as people have told me. So I am planning to buy a PRO 1250D 3 phase Kw Hour meter to measure the true consumption. Cost including VAT and delivery is £90.65 (GB Pounds). If anyone can suggest a cheaper alternative, I would be grateful.

In some places on the primary circuit there are unlagged parts, for example the filter and valve unit. When it is humid I get condensation which drips on the floor. I have to make up a little device to catch the drips.

Both primary and secondary pumps are still doing their 10 days 24/7 continuous running to get rid of the air. The temperature of the primary water is 14 degrees, so in the depths of winter the heat pump will be starting to raise the temperature from 14 degrees up to 35 which is the max set for the underfloor heating. I am hopeful of low energy costs.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88672#Comment_88672 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88672#Comment_88672 Wed, 08 Sep 2010 11:42:22 +0100 DamonHD
Rgds

Damon]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88676#Comment_88676 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88676#Comment_88676 Wed, 08 Sep 2010 12:19:10 +0100 Paul in Montreal Posted By: DamonHDCan you not lag the exposed bits somehow to avoid the condensation problem and energy wastage, eg wrap with a hot-water-tank jacket?

There is no energy wastage - it's the ground loop pipes and the water in them is cold, hence the condensation. I had the same issue but just wrapped pipe lagging around the valves and put little cups under the parts that couldn't be lagged to catch any drips. Problem solved.

Paul in Montreal.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88738#Comment_88738 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88738#Comment_88738 Wed, 08 Sep 2010 21:20:24 +0100 jamesingram
EST report on the performance of Heat pumps released at last http://tinyurl.com/32zlylc

Getting warmer: a field trial of heat pumps PDF
http://www.energysavingtrust.org.uk/Generate-your-own-energy/Heat-pump-field-trial/Getting-warmer-a-field-trial-of-heat-pumps-PDF]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88758#Comment_88758 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88758#Comment_88758 Thu, 09 Sep 2010 09:03:03 +0100 topher
Thanks for the post. Very disappointing report. Best COP for ground source like my system was 3.6. My Nibe claims 4.25 at 35 degrees. I am running at less than 35 degrees, so will I get COP = 4.25 ? If not what factors will reduce it?

Most interesting is the influence of correct set up. I am going to look into that.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88943#Comment_88943 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88943#Comment_88943 Sat, 11 Sep 2010 15:56:18 +0100 topher
The 10 day continuous running of both pumps has now ended. They were both totally silent (to my old ears). I thought I might switch it off for the first time and see what my 'CurrentCost' consumption monitor showed.

Power disconnected from Nibe unit by circuit breaker 0 All watts.
Power to Nibe unit, but Nibe switched off 14
Nibe unity switched on, but not operating 110

So in the non heating season, switch it off at the circuit breaker.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88944#Comment_88944 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88944#Comment_88944 Sat, 11 Sep 2010 16:07:48 +0100 topher
The 10 day continuous running of both circulating pumps has now ended. They were totally silent to my old ears. I thought I might switch it off for the first time and see what the 'CurrentCost' consumption monitor (not an accurate measurement) showed.

Power disconnected from Nibe unit by external circuit breaker - 0 watts. At least it is accurate at zero.
Power to Nibe, but Nibe switched off by front panel switch - 14 watts
Nibe unit switched on, but not operating - 110 reducing to 66 watts

So in the non heating season, switch it off at the circuit breaker.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88947#Comment_88947 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88947#Comment_88947 Sat, 11 Sep 2010 17:35:51 +0100 DamonHD
Rgds

Damon]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88957#Comment_88957 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=88957#Comment_88957 Sat, 11 Sep 2010 19:35:31 +0100 topher
I have to be careful with the following. . . . I very fortunately have access to a Nibe expert, and when the heating season starts we will go through all the many parameters and set them correctly. I will post the results.

In France, there are two possibilities for commissioning.
1. Pay 390 € and have an Atlantic (the sole French distributor) Nibe expert set the system up.
2. The installer sets the system up, cheaper but I am sure Dominique my installer, won't mind me saying that it is the first time he has installed an Atlantic (Nibe) system. I will share my experience with the Nibe expert with Dominique.]]> https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=89005#Comment_89005 https://www.greenbuildingforum.co.uk/newforum/comments.php?DiscussionID=6164&Focus=89005#Comment_89005 Sun, 12 Sep 2010 12:07:59 +0100 fridihem I would have thought that the setting up and commissioning the system would be in the price, it is here in Sweden, and even a couple of return visits are also free, just to check that all in OK. My neighbour is absolutely thrilled with the performance both summer and winter, and he has worked out that it will have paid for itself in 7 yrs. He had oil/wood fired set up before, fairly old, since 64, so it was time to change, and as i said before all done and running on the evening of the 2nd day]]>